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Vexcalibur
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07 May 2011, 3:32 pm

Question for herr Christians, If Osama's last thought was regret about what he did, would Jesus forgive him?


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Fnord
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07 May 2011, 3:38 pm

Only if bin Laden had (1) Confessed his sins; (2) Repented of his sins; (3) Claimed Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior; and (4) Done all this of his own free will before he died.

At least, that's what the Bible says.


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Philologos
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07 May 2011, 3:47 pm

Vexcalibur - despite the formula, it is a valid question and I have you down as on average probably sincere - even where we think one another misguided.

There is nothing I know of bin Laden doing that could not be forgiven, though we have no way of knowing if he was till we get there.

Fnord was on the cusp. That gratuitous misclaimer as to the contents of the NT [you will hear some of that as doctrine, but it is extrapolation] pushes him over the top.



MarketAndChurch
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07 May 2011, 4:30 pm

He has carried the lords name in vain by not only misrepresenting God but also by turning others away from God, and murdered hundreds of thousands of people both directly and indirectly via his hate-filled ideology and campaign. The sum totality of his actions is evil.

He has no chance of being forgiven. If he does, Christianity is a sick and unethical religion, and God is not Just.


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ruveyn
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07 May 2011, 4:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
Only if bin Laden had (1) Confessed his sins; (2) Repented of his sins; (3) Claimed Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior; and (4) Done all this of his own free will before he died.

At least, that's what the Bible says.


You left out --- sucked Jesus c*ck.

ruveyn



Fnord
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07 May 2011, 4:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Only if bin Laden had (1) Confessed his sins; (2) Repented of his sins; (3) Claimed Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior; and (4) Done all this of his own free will before he died. At least, that's what the Bible says.

You left out --- sucked Jesus c*ck.

You left out --- evidence to support your implied assumption that Jesus existed.


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ruveyn
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07 May 2011, 4:45 pm

Fnord wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Only if bin Laden had (1) Confessed his sins; (2) Repented of his sins; (3) Claimed Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior; and (4) Done all this of his own free will before he died. At least, that's what the Bible says.

You left out --- sucked Jesus c*ck.

You left out --- evidence to support your implied assumption that Jesus existed.


You are right. I do not have an iota of evidence that Jesus' c*ck existed.

ruveyn



Jacoby
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07 May 2011, 5:03 pm

I'm not one for superstition but if I was, I'd like to think Jesus would since that makes my chances look pretty good on gettin' in. :)



Philologos
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07 May 2011, 6:59 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
He has carried the lords name in vain by not only misrepresenting God but also by turning others away from God, and murdered hundreds of thousands of people both directly and indirectly via his hate-filled ideology and campaign. The sum totality of his actions is evil.

He has no chance of being forgiven. If he does, Christianity is a sick and unethical religion, and God is not Just.


Are you serious, or ironic?

If ironic hard to recognize with certainty.

If serious, hard to believe with the basics of the major theologies so accessible?



just_ben
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07 May 2011, 9:43 pm

I reckon J-dawg would be pretty cool with it.


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blunnet
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07 May 2011, 10:54 pm

Philologos wrote:
There is nothing I know of bin Laden doing that could not be forgiven, though we have no way of knowing if he was till we get there.

Get to where?

Highly unlikely, Bin Laden was not a christian, and would not seem to accept or convert to a western religion over his own.



John_Browning
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07 May 2011, 11:03 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
He has carried the lords name in vain by not only misrepresenting God but also by turning others away from God, and murdered hundreds of thousands of people both directly and indirectly via his hate-filled ideology and campaign. The sum totality of his actions is evil.

He has no chance of being forgiven. If he does, Christianity is a sick and unethical religion, and God is not Just.

That's not much different than what Paul was like on the road to Damascus. Bin Laden could have been saved if he still wanted to, but he would still face the mess he created in this life, just like a gang member becoming a Christian does not pardon them from the statute of limitations for everything they did in their past.

However, it appears that Bin Laden was past the point of being saved as outlined in Romans chapter 1 because he had become so corrupt in his heart that there is no chance he would ever want to be saved. Basically like crossing the event horizon near a black hole.


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blunnet
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07 May 2011, 11:07 pm

John_Browning wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
He has carried the lords name in vain by not only misrepresenting God but also by turning others away from God, and murdered hundreds of thousands of people both directly and indirectly via his hate-filled ideology and campaign. The sum totality of his actions is evil.

He has no chance of being forgiven. If he does, Christianity is a sick and unethical religion, and God is not Just.

That's not much different than what Paul was like on the road to Damascus. Bin Laden could have been saved if he still wanted to, but he would still face the mess he created in this life, just like a gang member becoming a Christian does not pardon them from the statute of limitations for everything they did in their past.

Wait few more years, well, probably a few hundred, until people hear about the Gospel of Laden.



Philologos
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08 May 2011, 12:17 am

blunnet wrote:
Philologos wrote:
There is nothing I know of bin Laden doing that could not be forgiven, though we have no way of knowing if he was till we get there.

Get to where?

Highly unlikely, Bin Laden was not a christian, and would not seem to accept or convert to a western religion over his own.


NOT ultimately an issue - it is not given us to know.

I should by the way have pojnted out that in most standard Christian formulation Jesus does not forgive the sin, we are told God the Father forgives the sin because of Jesus.

But of course, since "I and my Father are one," we may assume Jesus also forgives.



Master_Pedant
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08 May 2011, 12:22 am

Fnord wrote:
Only if bin Laden had (1) Confessed his sins; (2) Repented of his sins; (3) Claimed Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior; and (4) Done all this of his own free will before he died.

At least, that's what the Bible says.


But what would hyper-Calvinists say!


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Philologos
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08 May 2011, 8:57 am

But will hyper-Calvinists be forgiven?

It is rather unfair. The hyperCalvinist come close to saying that Osama is in if he was on the list, regardless, and many others count as Christians and righteous are stuck with the Bad Place because whoever they may be, whatever their deeds and repentances, they ain't on the list.

Yet my Christianity will let them into the playgrouynd, and I THINK even Osama could admit them if they made the shahada [might help to strap a vest on].

Not equitable.