Page 3 of 3 [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

02 Jun 2011, 11:01 am

well i lived in holland for about 5 months and the resulting lesser stress and antagonization when smoking was very refreshing, also as you say smoking in the netherlands is far from the way many smoke in denmark(almost like a contest, same with alcohol, so stupid :evil: )

the thing to realise here is that drug use is no different than any other kind of comfort we have, they all have a cost that goes beyond ourselfes, some more than drugs, some less.
we as human like pleasure, not in itself a bad thing, it is how you do it that matters, there exists buisnessmen and organizations that cause a lot of harm as well.
in every "area" you will find people that cause harm and people that do good, with the same "tools" so to speak.


basically i think all we can do is show some tolerance, understnding and compassion towards those we have a chance to help with something and in the process we might learn how to do so with less stress on the planet and ourselves, everywhere.
shifting blame and trying to control the perception of right or wrong in a world as diverse as this will always be futile, maybe even damaging.
explain it as is, perceive it as is,

if done right legalizaion would also do a huge number on the financials of criminals everywhere, now it is crucial not to put too heavy a taxation or profit on the drugs as that would allow for a more attractive black market.
the black market will always be there, but by keeping the price difference as low as possible while still allowing for some revenue, one could severily reduce the atractiveness of what it offers.
i also think some of the psychological side effects of drug use would lessen as people wouldnt feel persecuted in the same way, i think this effect has been severily underestimated for some drugs.


_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.


vofc
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2011
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 19
Location: London, UK

02 Jun 2011, 11:32 am

leejosepho wrote:
vofc wrote:
Wallourdes wrote:
Nope, not moralizing but offering an (healthy/healthier) alternative to what they are seeking with drug usage.

Doing drugs isn't unhealthy ...

Our glorious leaders ... and a concomitant loss of power which is really the problem.

Really?! :wink:


Call me cynical:(;).



Wallourdes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,589
Location: Netherlands

02 Jun 2011, 4:04 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Wallourdes wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Wallourdes wrote:
I'm thinking about introducing classes for dealing with daily life situations and to learn to improvise when it's not a standard situation.

Welcome to WP! :wink:

:lol: I hadn't thought about it that thoroughly, but I was implicating real life school classes. Since I think that this is where the most of the drug usage starts - daily living complications.
Of course this will not prevent 100%, but at least a good part of the trouble depending on the quality of education.

I doubt there really is much of any such thing as "prevention" apart from something else being compromised, and I use the experience of my younger daughter's "Driver's Ed" class scaring her completely away from motorcycles as an example of that. True, she might now never be injured simply because she will never ride, but then neither will she ever be able to make her own well-informed decision and/or actually find out for herself about riding. And then ...

I suppose you might be familiar with one of more of the "Scared Straight" kinds of models, and in my own case it was actually one of those that helped drive me toward some experimentation of my own when that particular "class" seemed to make it apparent my having still-previously been told "You shall surely die" might not actually be true. After all, the guy speaking at that time was obviously enjoying "cookies and milk at Grandma's house" now (and even being paid to tell all the rest of us all about all of that).


I'm not saying "don't do drugs", I simply want to take away the factors that are easily leading-up to primarily behavioural addiction. Experimentation with drugs happens when you are young mostly out of curiousity, that stuff just happens.


_________________
"It all start with Hoborg, a being who had to create, because... he had to. He make the world full of beauty and wonder. This world, the Neverhood, a world where he could live forever and ever more!"


jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

02 Jun 2011, 6:14 pm

I like a lively debate, and I enjoy speculation as well. I want people to take their ideas for improving society and put them into action!

The Commission did a lot of research, studied the approaches of different countries, and measured their success in terms of quantities of drugs consumed or spread of HIV/AIDS, and so on. Get the report here and skip straight to the charts and the footnotes.

U.S. policy doesn't accomplish its stated goals. It may make some of you happy or sad, but that's not really the point.

Other methods accomplish those goals. These methods work in practice, but please feel free to continue to debate whether or not they work in theory.


_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade


Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

02 Jun 2011, 6:36 pm

What are the other methods that "worked in practice"?


_________________
.


iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

02 Jun 2011, 6:43 pm

It's failed because it was a police action and not a war, and as much as America can kick butt in outright warfare we kinda stink in police actions. War itself is simple compared to the ongoing minutiae of finding this criminal, following this lead, tracking this ringleader or that and basically wandering around everywhere. Crime is ubiquitous on Earth, and a crime involving the sale of contraband is particularly difficult to track down when it is committed by so many who think that poisoning their bodies is cool. "Look at me, I'm flying!" No, you're not, you look like you've lost your marbles but you're quite definitely grounded.



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

02 Jun 2011, 6:53 pm

It failed for the same reasons alcohol prohibitions failed.


_________________
.


cave_canem
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 378
Location: Canada

02 Jun 2011, 9:17 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Other methods accomplish those goals. These methods work in practice, but please feel free to continue to debate whether or not they work in theory.


:lol:



heylelshalem
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 101
Location: spokane washington

03 Jun 2011, 1:35 am

reasons the drug war is a total fail-

1. because drugs are illegal they are extremely profitable. Crime is caused by the fact that drug addicts in the bottom rungs of the downward spiral cant work and because drugs are expensive they do what they can to support their habit..which is either steal , prostitute or sell drugs to other addicts. The people who usually sell the drugs dont care what happens to these people who become addicted.

2. the government and industry make too much money off of arresting people. And of course using drugs as an excuse to basically invade other countrys, how many countrys are we in due to the "war on drugs" right now? And guess what! we have the largest prison population of any first world country..and most of those people in that prison are for fairly petty drug charges..or charges in relation to getting said drugs. Not to mention all the money or local police depts. make from seizing assets and property of said drug dealers lol.

3. the government plays both sides of the game. Ever wonder how we get drug epidemics? read up on the cia's involvment with the crack epidemic in the eigthies...and the heroin epidemic during the vietnam war...or hell the new heroin epidemic now..all because the CIA uses drug money sometimes to pay for illicit activities that they cant report to the budget commision.

4. All street drugs were at some time developed by pharmacutical companies..heroin, cocaine, meth, etc. al. All were sold in pharmacys...all were advertised ...though currently pharma drugs the legal kind, kill a lot of people every year and is fast becoming the largest concern as far as chemical dependency goes..still though society tends to turn a blind eye...

Imho we should retool the "war on drugs" and treat it as a health issue and not a criminal one. Far too many peoples lives have been ruined by it.


_________________
VERITAS LVX MEA


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

03 Jun 2011, 4:25 pm

lol drugs are never going to disappear so fighting a war against them is not going to work. Also I find it quite ridiculous that it is perfectly legal to get so drunk as often as you want excluding at work or while driving. But it's illegal to smoke marijuana, in your own home and anywhere else. Sure there are addiction problems, and not just to drugs either.....people with these problems most likely need some sort of psychological help, they don't need to be put in jail that won't solve anything. Also there has to be legal limitations on things I guess.....like the laws against drinking and driving for instance. So yeah I do not think the currant policies really work to well.



Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

03 Jun 2011, 5:36 pm

if drugs werent illegal many drug users wouldnt be criminels,


_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

03 Jun 2011, 5:47 pm

Oodain wrote:
if drugs werent illegal many drug users wouldnt be criminels,


That is true and I see that as a good thing.



jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

27 Jun 2011, 9:21 pm

Also, there are no drug users in Iran.


_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade


MarsCoban
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 175
Location: Colorado

27 Jun 2011, 9:27 pm

According to a theory (developed, I believe, by Terence McKenna) drug use, specifically the use of psilocybin mushrooms, played and may still be playing a pivotal role in the evolution of human consciousness.
Check out the book Food of the Gods if you're interested. If nothing else, it is thought stimulating.

Oh, and the War on Drugs will always fail. Anything can be used as a drug. Consumerism is a popular drug.


_________________
I try to prevent my ego from obscuring my greatness.