Why YOU should believe...
http://www.npr.org/2011/12/20/144026606 ... -spiritual
Eric Weiner's most recent book is Man Seeks God: My Flirtations with the Divine.
Surveys show religious people are happier than the secular. Why is this? Is it — as an atheist friend quipped — that "ignorance is bliss?" Not long ago, that's what I would have concluded. Like many people of my ilk — cerebral East Coaster, highly skeptical and, yes, latte drinking — I reflexively viewed the religious as less sophisticated. And, if I'm brutally honest here, somehow less intelligent, or at least more narrow-minded. I don't feel that way anymore.
I spent several years traveling the world, meeting deeply religious people from faiths as diverse as Buddhism and Catholicism, Taoism and Wicca. These people didn't check their brains at the temple door. They are intelligent, but theirs is an intelligence that extends beyond that of cold logic alone: an intuitive sense that I envy. And while it's true that some of those I met sought absolute certainty from their faith, the vast majority live comfortably with doubt and uncertainty. They fit squarely into a category that one psychologist calls the "Questers," those who see questions, not answers, as central to their religious experience.
Slowly, I've come to realize that I too am a Quester. To be clear: I consider myself a rationalist. I believe that reason, and its offshoot, science, are good. I also believe that there is more to the world than meets the eye, though I'd be hard-pressed to define what that "more" is. Am I an agnostic? Sort of, but I'm more active than that. We Questers do things. We meditate. We pray. And we do these things even though we don't fully believe in them.
What do you believe? That's our default question when it comes to matters of faith. Frankly, and with all due respect, I don't care what you believe. What do you experience? What do you do? Those are the more important questions.
I met a Kabbalist in Israel named Avraham, and he explained it like this. For years, he read religious texts but always wondered: "How do they know that?" One day, he shifted the question to: "What do they mean by that?" A subtle shift, but a crucial one, he told me.
Avraham is happy — happier than just about anyone I've ever met. Non-believers might say his happiness is based on a lie. But who are we to say what is true? As William James, that great chronicler of religious experience, put it: "Truth is what works." On the face of it, that sounds absurd. But James is speaking of a different kind of truth. If spiritual practices work for us, if they make us better, happier people, than they are true.
The debate between faith and reason is a false one. Science and religion don't occupy the same turf. Saying, "Now that we have science, there is no reason for religion" is like saying, "Now that we have the microwave oven, we have no use for Shakespeare." We need both, of course. Only then can we lead fully rounded lives. And, yes, happier ones, too.
In my journey from Baptist to atheist to deist and student of Stoic ethics, I can say I've always been happier believing in something.
I also attempted this because of research and my own personal observation that people with faith tend to be happier and have more of a sense of purpose in life. My mission ultimatel;y failed. It turns out that faith was not, for me, a "fake it till you make it" situation. I couldn't just consciously decide to have faith (although I tried) because I was well aware that it was a conscious decision, making it feel (accurately) like unauthentic faith. So I decided to let go and stop worrying about whether or not I could manufacture a level of faith to make me happy. And ironically, that made me happy.
Both assertions: God exists and God does not exist are untestable. From a scientific point of view the entire question is nonsense.
ruveyn
This is why I believe in the bible. Although it was written by human hands it is divinely inspired as 2 Timothy 3:16 states. No human back then could know these things unless it was inspired by a supreme being. That supreme being identifies himself numerous times in his word the bible as Jehovah God... or Yahweh Elohim (if you're Jewish).
Do you know any of the writers of scriptures personally? Have you talked with them? If not, then who do you know they were inspired and even if they were inspired who inspired them?
ruveyn
Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem
Idaho rose. I am completely social, a nice guy and I am not faking it. I am willing to leave everything in order to get married with you, yet it is so that if I am called on for combat I will have to leave you. I won't close my eyes forever when we are together, I expect that we do fun things together alone. I want to thank God for putting his combatants all of them in use for us that we can be able to enjoy the company of eachother. All this we have, only if we believe. ... I really need a believing, lunatic wife. Please. ... I can't take that you are absent like this. I want to talk to you. I have sent you letters, but I don't know if they come to you. These "submissions" did not come forth! Am I submitting my voice to someone who does not send it forth? Please IdahoRose talk to me. Anyone, tell her. Tell her I love her and help me out. In the Lords the diving, God name help me out.
Salam
GoonSquad
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Yeah, some sort of moral/ethical code is necessary for people to live together in a functional, just society.
No matter how reasonable and benevolent someone is, they will lose their way from time to time. That's why it's good to have a coherent set of beliefs to check yourself against--a way to recalibrate your moral compass.
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http://www.npr.org/2011/12/20/144026606 ... -spiritual
Eric Weiner's most recent book is Man Seeks God: My Flirtations with the Divine.
Surveys show religious people are happier than the secular. Why is this? Is it — as an atheist friend quipped — that "ignorance is bliss?" Not long ago, that's what I would have concluded. Like many people of my ilk — cerebral East Coaster, highly skeptical and, yes, latte drinking — I reflexively viewed the religious as less sophisticated. And, if I'm brutally honest here, somehow less intelligent, or at least more narrow-minded. I don't feel that way anymore.
I spent several years traveling the world, meeting deeply religious people from faiths as diverse as Buddhism and Catholicism, Taoism and Wicca. These people didn't check their brains at the temple door. They are intelligent, but theirs is an intelligence that extends beyond that of cold logic alone: an intuitive sense that I envy. And while it's true that some of those I met sought absolute certainty from their faith, the vast majority live comfortably with doubt and uncertainty. They fit squarely into a category that one psychologist calls the "Questers," those who see questions, not answers, as central to their religious experience.
Slowly, I've come to realize that I too am a Quester. To be clear: I consider myself a rationalist. I believe that reason, and its offshoot, science, are good. I also believe that there is more to the world than meets the eye, though I'd be hard-pressed to define what that "more" is. Am I an agnostic? Sort of, but I'm more active than that. We Questers do things. We meditate. We pray. And we do these things even though we don't fully believe in them.
What do you believe? That's our default question when it comes to matters of faith. Frankly, and with all due respect, I don't care what you believe. What do you experience? What do you do? Those are the more important questions.
I met a Kabbalist in Israel named Avraham, and he explained it like this. For years, he read religious texts but always wondered: "How do they know that?" One day, he shifted the question to: "What do they mean by that?" A subtle shift, but a crucial one, he told me.
Avraham is happy — happier than just about anyone I've ever met. Non-believers might say his happiness is based on a lie. But who are we to say what is true? As William James, that great chronicler of religious experience, put it: "Truth is what works." On the face of it, that sounds absurd. But James is speaking of a different kind of truth. If spiritual practices work for us, if they make us better, happier people, than they are true.
The debate between faith and reason is a false one. Science and religion don't occupy the same turf. Saying, "Now that we have science, there is no reason for religion" is like saying, "Now that we have the microwave oven, we have no use for Shakespeare." We need both, of course. Only then can we lead fully rounded lives. And, yes, happier ones, too.
In my journey from Baptist to atheist to deist and student of Stoic ethics, I can say I've always been happier believing in something.
even as an atheist i still believe in a higher power, the Laws of Nature are my higher power, the Universe is my higher power. though Stoic ethics appeal to me because the Stoics are related to the Cynics (Greek Cynics not modern Cynics) and my beliefs also relate to Greek Cynicism as well as moral and existential nihilism
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If you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, have accepted him as your lord and savior, and are 100% proud of it, put this in your sig.
GoonSquad
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Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. If you're suggesting that you must abandon your reason in order to obtain "religious" happiness, I'd counter that your thinking is narrow and you lack a true understanding of happiness.
If you're an atheist, you probably don't think you have a "purpose" in life. BUT, you are stuck here... so, why not at least try to be happy?
As a stoic I doubt that "I" will survive death. All I know is that I'm here now and my only goal is to make the best of it by living a good and therefore happy life.
Stoics hold that true happiness is a byproduct of virtue. To be virtuous one must live according to nature (reason) and strive to be prudent, just, temperate, and courageous in all things.
Experiencing pleasure and being happy are not the same things. As a matter of fact, excessive pleasure seeking is a sure recipe for long term misery.
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kxmode
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Do you know any of the writers of scriptures personally? Have you talked with them? If not, then who do you know they were inspired and even if they were inspired who inspired them?
You've already made it clear from past comments that you don't believe in God and you think the bible is a "book of fables". You and I don't see things the same, and for that reason alone I'm not even going to try and talk with you on your level. Besides, almost everything you write is borderline confrontational (and it's not just with me... you do it with everyone). I don't know if you mean to do this but it sure doesn't invite a response. Consider this my last reply to anything you post ruveyn...
The fact of the matter is that cheap sources of "happiness" do not sit well with me, and this includes the most vulgar concept of religion, thank you. When someone tells me, "Believe in JESUS! It makes you feel GOOD!" I feel like I'm being invited to lay with a crack whore and regard it as "lovemaking." It disgusts me. If I were being presented with a concept of religion that were the least bit aesthetic, my reaction would be different.
If a Christian wants me to feel interested in religion, tell me about your culture, people. You have a rich and beautiful heritage. I have studied it. That has a lot more meaning than something as transient as a sensation that only passes and leaves behind it a void.
GoonSquad
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Both assertions: God exists and God does not exist are untestable. From a scientific point of view the entire question is nonsense.
ruveyn
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For example the bible states the earth was created in six days. Through scientific research humans have learned that the the earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old.
- Where in science is it stated that universe took 6 periods of time to be made?
What does the bible say about this? Over 2,600 years ago in simple words Isaiah writes, "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth."
Identical? Hahahaha
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Atoms - those building blocks that make up virtually everything in the universe - look like microscopic solar systems made up "stars" called electrons surrounded by orbiting "planets" called protons.
atoms make up about 6 percent of the universe. Most gravitating mass is not baryonic maerial (electrons, protons, neutrons, etc). 24 percent is so called "dark matter" which gravitates but is not baryonic. And the rest is so called "dark energy" which no one really knows much about.
Atoms do NOT resemble little solar systems. That is the Rutherford model of the atom which cannot be right because the electrons would collapse onto the nucleus. The electrons are more like a cloud of stuff in various shells determined by their energy. That is the model of the atom that goes with quantum physics.
ruveyn
GoonSquad
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I'm just yanking your chain... You know us happy theists/deists. We can't resist a bit of teasing. It's all good.
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