Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

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Well that could apply to anyone, even sociopaths to a degree rely on their own morals.
The true question is whether or not they would retain the same morals after removing the variable from their life.
Most people wouldn't.
If you took a sociopath's ego away, what would you have?
If you took a Catholic's faith away what would you have?
Would either people have the same morals?
I don't think so.
But they would be very similar.

Better than 70%.

Likely a lot more if push came to shove language and intent wise.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt ... anguage=en

Regards
DL

The Pagan Classical Greeks didnt necessarily consider their gods to be morally upright. Zeus was constantly committing adultery, incest, and bestiality.

If the universe has a head honcho then what would an "ethical" or "moral" ruler of the Universe look like?

How would you know a moral monotheistic god if you saw one?

It all hinges on one question:is there an eternal after life, or not?

If there is no eternal afterlife then any monotheistic creator/ruler of the Universe would have to be immoral. Look at his creation. Its full of suffering, evil, and injustice. By definition if this creation had a creator then the creator would have to be evil.

But if there is an eternal afterlife where all of the unfairness gets evened out then there is the possibility of a non evil creator.

I fall short of the glory of perfection.

Are there any of you that are without sin, ethical and moral imperfection , that can cast a stone or post.
Seems the answer is yes.
Many have murdered by character assassination.
"
Who may ascend into the hill of the LORD? And who may stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood And has not sworn deceitfully."

You writers are in good company.
You have many gifts

Love and prayers

God is said to be omnibenevolent and should not allow any unfairness at all and we should thus all end in heaven and not hell as God would take full responsibility for all evil.

I think you have destroyed the notion of a supernatural God.

Regards
DL

I agree that none are without sin.

So please tell us why God has set our natures to default to sin while making it impossible for any of us to be sinless?

And since God has done this, why he would then punish us for following exactly the natures he himself put into us?

If God punishes us for that then he is quite unjust. Right?

Regards
DL

How are you not responsible for your own sin? If you know you are doing evil, then that you are responsible for. That is like blaming evolution for sin.
It does no good even if it is true. it can't ever be truly directly Gods fault for almost anything, good nor bad, so why do both believers and non believers blame God? He barely interferes nowadays if he even exists. This is our lot in life, we are sinful, and God isn't going to change that.

no....
D. L. I don't believe God made man to sin.
I pray you figure out why your logic is not as sound .....

Me I have sometimes have trouble with things as simple as spelling Pycholigy and Jeapardy.


Forgiveness and grace has sure helped this writer.

streams from my world of thought stopped today at a T Shirt worn by a Yoga instructor with words, SHIFT HAPPENS. ...
I am a believer
Re: Revelations mentioned here a while ago. It hasn't happened.

Correct. It is evolutionary pressure that is partially to blame and possibly modern man for not finding a way around that.

Let me go longer on you with this old argument of mine.

--------------

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 66/?no-ist

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL

Your childish belief is irrelevant to the truth.

Read that post just above and argue against it.

Just making your simplistic claim is quite useless.

Regards
DL

Thank you.
Simplicity gives me serenity

May your wisdom give you peace.

Shalom Alechim

me aka Zvi.

Allah says: the death of one innocent is equal to the death of humanity
Allah also says He is the only one with the right to take a life, not humans--suicide and murder are wrong in His eyes.

God does say no murdering.
He was very patient in waiting 100's of years before passing judgement

Sometimes just a few saved a town

Abraham is the father of a few religions. He also was quite the negotiator in asking the What if question to God. " What if there were 40 just folks"

_____
For dog lovers check the
Hell and Dalmations meme circulating

"If we can't laugh at ourselves, others will beat us to it."

Love and prayers
Brother Laugh (a name I use in my Church, Synagogue and Temple programs.

Wow. Few Muslims follow that moral tenet. Look at how many would kill gays and any who would kill apostates for rejecting Islam. Not to mention all the other reasons they sa they would kill for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... SPvnFDDQHk

Regards
DL

Good luck on getting anyone to agree what they are in the first place.

You could see Yahweh as:
- The deity of thunder and lightening of the OT
- A version of Jupiter/Zeus, centered around the symbolism of Jupiter/Chesed, ie. primary law-giver of the microprosia and demiurge below the abyss.
- The two parts masculine (Y and V) and two parts feminine four-elemental (fire, water, air, and earth) formula of creation, really everything from Malkuth to Kether, to the Azoth of Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur.

You could see Allah as:
- The supreme deity who sent Gabriel to chat with Mohammad
- The male aspect of Venus, Friday being their day of worship and Venus being the Islamic crescent, which would be Lucifer albeit in a completely different context the meaning mainstream Christianity likes to tag with that, unless you look at it as Jesus being the bright and morning star of Revelations 22 - thus their Jesus is a supreme deity who they have deep distrust for the idea that It was ever incarnate on earth albeit for reasons beyond most, likely of Sabian origin in some way, Venus is still of central meaning.
- I don't know what Sufi's would say on this, might be some combination of the last two, but I'm sure there are far more possibilities than I mentioned here.