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Myrtonos
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21 Sep 2018, 12:40 am

A humanist is someone that worships mankind, though most claim to be irreligious and don't think of it as worshipping. They believe that the nature of people is the most important thing in the world and gives meaning to everything that happens in any inhabited part of the world.
For example, liberal humanist is someone that believes that individual adults of mankind are the source of power and meaning in the world, that no source or authority is higher than all individuals of our own species. Let's consider some concrete examples of real world implications of following liberal humanism:

Democracy with elections

At each election, each adult citizen, at least if not in prison, get to decide who should rule the jurisdiction, regardless of fundamental characteristics, such as race, sex, physical characteristics, or even intelligence, and regardless of level of education. Then a winner is chosen at the end of the election.
This means that no source of authority is higher than the aggregate of voters, in my country that's people at least 18 years of age and not in prison.

There is a source (such as a religious scripture) of authority (such as god) that's higher or knows better than everyone who is, or should be, eligible to vote. Strongly agree, disagree, strongly disagree, agree.

Free market

In a free market, this being in a democracy, the customer has the ultimate authority on what gets produced.
For example, those making home video equipment and media to go with them produce whatever video formats and whatever models of video recorders, DVD-players, etc, that home video customers want to buy. If they don't produce what enough people want to buy, they go bankrupt and close.
Take the battle of V.H.S and Betamax, for those who remember video cassette recorders. Beta had the better picture and better sound, but V.H.S appealed to more people and won the format war. According to the tenants of liberal economics, this shows that V.H.S was, nevertheless, better than Beta.
The whole point of a video recorder was to time-shift television broadcasts that one didn't get to watch as they were broadcast. So individuals who wanted to time-shift (so they didn't miss their favourite shows), these being the first home video customers, had the ultimate authority on what video formats and what models of video recorder got produced.
Geeks who admit that more people bought V.H.S than Beta but claim that Beta was still better than V.H.S are blaming the customer. They think that Sony developed the better video format but most home video customers didn't know what format was best for them.

Another example is the car market. Let's say a committee of the wisest car designers in the world is organised, this includes winners of various Nobel Prize awards. And they come together for a few years with millions of dollars and a lot of help for all the friends of people in the design team. Then this "perfect" car is produced after that time, invented and engineered by the smartest and wisest people in the world. Given the cost of developing and producing this car, it needs to be a model that very rich car buyers would actually like. If plenty of people can afford this expensive car and hardly any buy it, it will fail in the market.

Compare this with a central command economy, this was the system in the communist bloc countries at the time of the iron curtain, where the government does plan what goods people get, they plan the radio receivers and television sets, etc, that ordinary people got.
For example, in East Germany, there were "really wise" people sitting in East Berlin who decided that nearly everyone who needed a car would get a Trabant, with a smoky "lawn mower" engine, and so badly built. Many East German people didn't like it, but that was their problem until the Berlin Wall fell. This car model would never sell in a free market in a democracy, no matter how cheaply it was sold.

It is the duty of successful manufacturers to produce whatever goods enough people want to buy. Strongly Agree, Agree, Strongly Disagree, Disagree

Creativity, such as art and music
During many time frames in history, various cultures had ideas on what creativity and beauty are. And there were, in fact, beliefs in objective criteria to determine creativity, such as how good a given work of art is. Recall how democracy with elections gives those eligible to vote the highest authority on who rules the country and how in a free market, the aggregate of customers is the highest authority.
The liberal humanist approach to art and music, etc, is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in the feelings of the person seeing the art, listening to the music, watching the play or film or whatever.

Whether art or music is good or not, what makes it good, and even whether may be considered art, or what might be considered creative is subjective. Strongly Agree, Agree, Disagree, Strongly Disagree.

The field of ethics

Suppose I lived in the middle ages and I fell in love with another man's wife and I confess to the priest. The priest declares "This is very evil, thou willt go to hell for that, it displeaseth the lord, it sayeth in the ten commandments of Exodus that thou shalt not commit adultery or even covert thy neighour's wife." All involved parties say to the priest that they feel very good about it. "We care not what you feel, your feelings are unimportant, what you feel determines not what is good or evil!"
A liberal humanist would believe in doing whatever feels good. For example, if stimming feels good, find a place to do it. If you feel good about it, there is no outside reason why it should be bad or wrong. For example, there is no reason in the world why you shouldn't stim in private.
They also believe in adults decide which consenting adults to marry (whether of the same or opposite sex) based on their own thoughts and feelings, compare this with arranged marriage. They see no reason in the world why a romantic relationship between consenting adults should be bad or wrong.

There are outside reasons why one shouldn't do something that feels good. Agree, Strongly Agree, Disagree, Strongly Disagree.

Even religious people nowadays refer to liberal humanism.
Ten years ago, at the time of writing, there was a case of Muslims protesting against inclusion of a painting of Muhammed in Wikipedia's Muhammed article. See articles about it in the New York Times, and the Guardian. Their criticisms were based on the feelings of the Muslims, not on the basis of Islamic law. So even religious people, like Christians, Judaists and Hindus may argue against things based on their feelings, not because God forbade it or because of what religious scriptures say.

Education

The main thing education should do is teach students to think for themselves. Strongly Agree, Agree, Disagree, Strongly Disagree.

Note: The methods of learning common in both schools and universities, such as rote learning, active memorisation, etc, are very ineffective at teaching people to think for themselves, and in general, punishment as part of the learning process is also ineffective at that.



pete413
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21 Sep 2018, 8:08 am

I'm a miserable s.o.b. who doesn't get along with anyone.
I guess I can't deny that I don't like people. Suppose I'm not as "liberal humanst" as I thought. but I don't like the other guys ether!

I'm just a nihilist.



Fnord
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21 Sep 2018, 8:31 am

Myrtonos wrote:
A humanist is someone that worships mankind...
Failed at first premise.

Humanists do not worship humankind; we simply accept as normal our responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good for humanity; lives that either ignore or reject any assertion of supernatural influences. Here are some more core beliefs of humanists:

• Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis, and not by imposition of faith-based doctrine.

• Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change, and not slaves to imaginary supernatural beings.

• Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience, and not from ancient texts written by racist, sexist, and xenophobic tribesmen.

• Life’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals, and not from service to faceless institutions that demand monetary tribute in exchange for moral condemnation.

• Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships; we are part of the whole of humanity, and our values are not derived in solitude and isolation.

• Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness, while working to benefit one's self leads only to misery and loneliness.

Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature’s integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.

Humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.



pete413
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21 Sep 2018, 8:52 am

Do you warm fuzzy "humanists" only associate with other people capable of putting on a "happy happy" mask? While looking down your noses and out-casting and isolating the miserable trolls, assuming they will learn social skills spontaneously in a social vacuum? (those unhappy people don't count, huh?)

how do you convince yourselves people don't suck, when they really do. Just look at me, the "troll". I don't count, everyone HATES me.



Fnord
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21 Sep 2018, 9:03 am

pete413 wrote:
Do you warm fuzzy "humanists" only associate with other people capable of putting on a "happy happy" mask? ...
Of course! NOBODY wants to associate with people who are constantly complaining and putting other people down.
pete413 wrote:
... While looking down your noses and out-casting and isolating the miserable trolls, assuming they will learn social skills spontaneously in a social vacuum?
Those people isolate themselves with their boorish and contentious behavior, especially when they call us snobs for not wanting to be around such intense negativity.
pete413 wrote:
(those unhappy people don't count, huh?)
Of course they do; but just as it is hard to treat a vicious dog like a warm, fuzzy puppy without getting hurt, so too is it difficult to get along with someone who is snarky, critical, and accusatory.
pete413 wrote:
how do you convince yourselves people don't suck, when they really do. Just look at me, the "troll". I don't count, everyone HATES me.
Well, with that attitude, it's now wonder people hate you.

Lighten up.



Fnord
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21 Sep 2018, 9:34 am

Good-bye!

Have a nice day!

:)



AspE
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21 Sep 2018, 9:48 am

Proud liberal humanist here!



Fnord
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21 Sep 2018, 9:51 am

pete413 wrote:
and f'k whoever gave me tech issues now, really, f-u dude. lost a drive, wtf? f'n punks!
Are you implying that one of the members here is both intelligent enough and resourceful enough to track down your IP address, bypass your security measures, and deliberately damage your hard drive?

I am shocked!

Shocked, I say!



Fnord
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21 Sep 2018, 9:52 am

AspE wrote:
Proud liberal humanist here!
My politics are a little more conservative -- fiscally, anyway.



pete413
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21 Sep 2018, 10:20 am

Fnord wrote:
pete413 wrote:
and f'k whoever gave me tech issues now, really, f-u dude. lost a drive, wtf? f'n punks!
Are you implying that one of the members here is both intelligent enough and resourceful enough to track down your IP address, bypass your security measures, and deliberately damage your hard drive?

I am shocked!

Shocked, I say!


I lost my internet connection temporarily and one of my drives came up lost, coincidentally, after getting angry at you.
If not someone here, then I have others screwing with me, whoever they are they are punks.

I just lost everything digital,no backups, my projects, photos, my whole storage drive, gone.

Congratulations! Whoever, successfully beat down a depressed person, yeah, like this is going to inspire me to be more positive, thanks.

I have nothing now.



pete413
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21 Sep 2018, 10:43 am

You people who call yourselves "humanists" then look down your arrogant "socially functional" noses, at other autistics, hypocrites. no compassion for the unhappy. but I guess I don't deserve it in your robotic 'aspie' eyes. flippin vulcans....



kraftiekortie
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21 Sep 2018, 10:45 am

What exactly is your purpose in being here, Pete?

Why don't you just get a life, and stop with the insults?



pete413
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21 Sep 2018, 11:21 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
What exactly is your purpose in being here, Pete?

Why don't you just get a life, and stop with the insults?


Another arrogant board veteran looking down his nose at me, ---- off mr stupid username.

"get a life" is that all you have, haven't heard that one before, EXACTLY HOW does one do that?
You are just soooooooo "together" and have this autism stuff beat, arent ya? dork.



kraftiekortie
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21 Sep 2018, 11:29 am

You do that by talking to people, listening to people, getting ideas from people.

There's no use, Bro. You'll get it some day. Now's not the day, though.

And I'm a nerd, Sir....Not a dork.



Spooky_Mulder
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21 Sep 2018, 11:36 am

Liberal humanist internationalist, like fellow aspie Albert Einstein. :D



Trueno
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21 Sep 2018, 11:39 am

Kraftie described as "arrogant"... I nearly spat out my coffee. He is one of nature's gentlemen, albeit capable of telling it like it is.


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