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The_Chosen_One
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13 Aug 2007, 11:29 pm

I think the reason he calls himself Wiggerbeater, is because if he used the term in that Python sketch, that WOULD be a hate crime.


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The_Chosen_One
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14 Aug 2007, 8:41 am

Oh, just thought. You referred to that document as a 'Bill of Rights'. Shouldn't there have been an accompanying 'Bill of Responsibilities' as well?

Amendment: A change or alteration to an existing document to either improve or enhance it.

Constitution: A document that contains the laws and rules of a country or organization for use by the population or members as the legislature (or committee defined.

Constitutional congress: Quorum of government or oganizational members metting to discuss changes or additions to the Constitution.

See, Wiggerbeater, I do have some knowledge, afterall. BTW, if I get the true meaning of your name, that would make you a person who would beat up on white trash, something akin to a rabid redneck.


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14 Aug 2007, 1:14 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
Oh, just thought. You referred to that document as a 'Bill of Rights'. Shouldn't there have been an accompanying 'Bill of Responsibilities' as well?

Amendment: A change or alteration to an existing document to either improve or enhance it.

Constitution: A document that contains the laws and rules of a country or organization for use by the population or members as the legislature (or committee defined.

Constitutional congress: Quorum of government or oganizational members metting to discuss changes or additions to the Constitution.

See, Wiggerbeater, I do have some knowledge, afterall. BTW, if I get the true meaning of your name, that would make you a person who would beat up on white trash, something akin to a rabid redneck.


Arent rednecks white trash? I'm gonna beat up on myself? And both terms are racist, and I would appreciate if you didnt use them. :)


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The_Chosen_One
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14 Aug 2007, 7:34 pm

Well sue me then :D :D because American law doesn't apply here.
As I said before, crime is crime no matter what, and just because someone from a different race etc is involved doesn't make the crime any different. Unfortunately, it seems that the American legislature operates on knee-jerk reactions to sensationalist stories by the press and media, and it also explains who is actually running the country - Rupert Murdoch and Bill Gates.


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17 Aug 2007, 9:46 pm

Fedaykin wrote:
"Hate crime" is defined in Sweden as a crime committed by a member of a majority group(Swede or Christian) against a member of a minority group defined by its race, religion, ethnic origin or simply homosexuals.


Wow, that's awful. That reasoning is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. What, do they think they're leveling the playing field when all they're doing is perpetuating a vicious cycle? One-way-street hate legislation doesn't work. It just doesn't. Not in theory, not in practice.



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17 Aug 2007, 10:10 pm

Hate crime? Why not just ordinary crime? It's a crime just the same. When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime. That reasoning is flawed, and unfair to the majority if someone gets a harsher punishment for killing a member of a minority group. Just define it as murder, no matter whoever the innocent victim, and why.


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The_Chosen_One
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18 Aug 2007, 12:09 am

Same should go for police as well; just because someone attacks a cop, doesn't mean they should be treated any more harshly than if they attack the local grocer. I know that some of you are going to say that the cops are authority, but in the whole scheme of things, they are just people too, and should have no more weight than that.

And using that screwed up logic about hate crimes, what if a darkie kills a white gay boy, or vice versa? As far as I'm concerned, it's murder, full stop.


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calandale
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18 Aug 2007, 12:50 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
And using that screwed up logic about hate crimes, what if a darkie kills a white gay boy, or vice versa? As far as I'm concerned, it's murder, full stop.


Let's take a look at other types of murder though.
Say killing to impose a coup. Isn't that worse than
murder of passion? See, there is a social agenda
which things like the KKK used to promote through
terror - using murder as a tool. This is the origin of
hate crime ideas: to prevent people from terrorizing
other groups of humans.



The_Chosen_One
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18 Aug 2007, 9:38 am

Revolution or treason, there is another word for it which eludes me. Yes, the KKK tried to justify their actions by not only saying they were right, but it was God that told them that the 'Human Stain' had to be dealt with. Misguided logic, and dogma contributed to the problem and I s'pose it makes it hard to deal with 'lunatics' when they get an idea into their collective minds. It just seems a bit of 'overkill' to use a term like hate crime when only part of the population are the victims. But then again, we live in crazy times....


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18 Aug 2007, 10:01 am

Anubis wrote:
When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime.

No. If a straight man kills a gay man because he's gay, it's a hate crime. The same could be said if it was the other way round, it's just that people rarely kill people for being straight. If I get murdered, it won't then be considered a hate crime just because I'm not straight. If people killed me because of that though, then it would.



Anubis
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18 Aug 2007, 10:08 am

Sopho wrote:
Anubis wrote:
When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime.

No. If a straight man kills a gay man because he's gay, it's a hate crime. The same could be said if it was the other way round, it's just that people rarely kill people for being straight. If I get murdered, it won't then be considered a hate crime just because I'm not straight. If people killed me because of that though, then it would.


That's what it automatically gets branded as, though.


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18 Aug 2007, 10:52 am

Sopho wrote:
Anubis wrote:
When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime.

No. If a straight man kills a gay man because he's gay, it's a hate crime. The same could be said if it was the other way round, it's just that people rarely kill people for being straight. If I get murdered, it won't then be considered a hate crime just because I'm not straight. If people killed me because of that though, then it would.

But how would a judge and jury decide if you were killed because you were gay, unless the person openly confessed to doing it.



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18 Aug 2007, 11:09 am

Anubis wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Anubis wrote:
When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime.

No. If a straight man kills a gay man because he's gay, it's a hate crime. The same could be said if it was the other way round, it's just that people rarely kill people for being straight. If I get murdered, it won't then be considered a hate crime just because I'm not straight. If people killed me because of that though, then it would.


That's what it automatically gets branded as, though.

Only if there was reason to believe it was done because that person was gay. ie. if a group of guys followed some gay guy home from Canal Street and then beat him up and shot him, it'd likely be because he was gay. Whereas if I'm just walking down the street and som psycho kills me, there'd be no reason to think my sexuality had anything to do with it.



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18 Aug 2007, 1:20 pm

Anubis wrote:
Hate crime? Why not just ordinary crime? It's a crime just the same. When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime. That reasoning is flawed, and unfair to the majority if someone gets a harsher punishment for killing a member of a minority group. Just define it as murder, no matter whoever the innocent victim, and why.

It's a hate crime, because there is no reason to murder one person other than because that person is different: Intolerance.

Other type of crimes, mostly is for a particular reason.

It is not flawed, it just represents the reason of why someone kills another person, if it is based ONLY on the race or being gay or gender, etc. of the victim, then that is hate. Also the term hate crime is to protect people from that kind of crimes. To protect them being a target just for being different.


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Last edited by greenblue on 18 Aug 2007, 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

greenblue
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18 Aug 2007, 1:23 pm

Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Anubis wrote:
When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime.

No. If a straight man kills a gay man because he's gay, it's a hate crime. The same could be said if it was the other way round, it's just that people rarely kill people for being straight. If I get murdered, it won't then be considered a hate crime just because I'm not straight. If people killed me because of that though, then it would.

But how would a judge and jury decide if you were killed because you were gay, unless the person openly confessed to doing it.

Don't know how that works, but I suppose they would study and analyze the circumstances and would make conclusions based on that.


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Hadron
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18 Aug 2007, 1:51 pm

greenblue wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Anubis wrote:
When a gay man kills a straight man, it's murder. When a straight man kills a gay man, it's a hate crime.

No. If a straight man kills a gay man because he's gay, it's a hate crime. The same could be said if it was the other way round, it's just that people rarely kill people for being straight. If I get murdered, it won't then be considered a hate crime just because I'm not straight. If people killed me because of that though, then it would.

But how would a judge and jury decide if you were killed because you were gay, unless the person openly confessed to doing it.

Don't know how that works, but I suppose they would study and analyze the circumstances and would make conclusions based on that.

I assume those circumstances would include the behaviour and actions of the perputrator. That would effectively mean that someone is more likely to get a crime counted as a hate crime if they were a member of the BNP, as an example. One obvious flaw of the hate crime legislation.