What type of people allow a 5 year old to transition!?

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30 Jan 2023, 1:28 pm

I was not saying it means respect. It definitely does not mean respect. It is used by people who are not willing to treat other people as fully human to label and dismiss the behavior being requested of them that they are not willing to do.

Example: a female firefighter asks to be referred to as a firefighter rather than a fireman - person who doesn’t want to learn and use a new term says “that’s just political correctness. It has always been fireman and if you insist on being one, that is what I will call you.” Firefighter says “I find that dismissive and feel like it implies women are not welcome.” Person responds “snowflake!” Sadly snowflake the firefighter will still save rude person’s life at the risk of her own.

magz
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30 Jan 2023, 1:32 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:

Cancelling is not exactly e criticism. People have had their careers and livelihoods taken away or threatened.

As far as I can recollect, people always had their careers and livelihoods threatned for being rude, especially when their work required a lot of contact with other people.

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magz
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30 Jan 2023, 1:38 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:

About the culture reflecting real world. Some aspects of it we can trace in the real world. Some we can't and therefore we can't talk about it because it's just useless speculation.

Culture does not "reflect real world". Culture is a part of real world. All the things I listed and more.

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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 1:44 pm

magz wrote:

Dengashinobi wrote:

Cancelling is not exactly e criticism. People have had their careers and livelihoods taken away or threatened.

As far as I can recollect, people always had their careers and livelihoods threatned for being rude, especially when their work required a lot of contact with other people.

People have always taken a risk by criticising those in power. Does that make the gulags OK?

magz
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30 Jan 2023, 2:33 pm

Wasn't I just pointing out that being criticized (or even ostracized) for rudeness is not the same as being sent to gulag? :scratch:

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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 3:03 pm

magz wrote:

Wasn't I just pointing out that being criticized (or even ostracized) for rudeness is not the same as being sent to gulag? :scratch:

You said:

magz wrote:

As far as I can recollect, people always had their careers and livelihoods threatned for being rude, especially when their work required a lot of contact with other people.

I responded:

Dengashinobi wrote:

People have always taken a risk by criticising those in power. Does that make the gulags OK?

I did not say that you said that being criticised is the same with being sent to a gulag.

You used an analogy and I responded with an analogy. And I asked a question.

You are evading that question.

magz
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30 Jan 2023, 3:09 pm

Evading this question? Lol. I never ever suggested anything would make gulags okay. These are my words:

magz wrote:

I find equating criticism of behaviors to physical torture of gulag system - a manipulation taken way too far.

So, if you insist on getting this said: No, I don't think so.

But how does all that relate to your refusal to accept some common language for use in this discussion?

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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 3:21 pm

magz wrote:

Evading this question? Lol. I never ever suggested anything would make gulags okay. These are my words:

magz wrote:

I find equating criticism of behaviors to physical torture of gulag system - a manipulation taken way too far.

So, if you insist on getting this said: No, I don't think so.

But how does all that relate to your refusal to accept some common language for use in this discussion?

Ok, you said:
"As far as I can recollect, people always had their careers and livelihoods threatned for being rude, especially when their work required a lot of contact with other people."

Therefore cancelling people is Ok, right?

magz
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30 Jan 2023, 3:26 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:

Therefore, "cancelling" people (i.e. refusing to publish their work, cancelling their shows or having them fired from work) for various offensive behaviors is nothing new at all, actually a regular pattern of human societes.
"Okay" or "not okay" of this phenomenon need case-by-case approach.

But again, how does that relate to this discussion and your refusal to agree on some basic definitions used? You accused me of evading questions but I can list several you have not answered.

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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 3:41 pm

magz wrote:

Dengashinobi wrote:

Therefore, "cancelling" people (i.e. refusing to publish their work, cancelling their shows or having them fired from work) for various offensive behaviors is nothing new at all.

But again, how does that relate to this discussion and your refusal to agree on some basic definitions used? You accused me of evading questions but I can list several you have not answered.

Because I used a similar analogy but with gulags. Since people have always risked by criticizing those in power, at the cost of penalties, then the gulags were ok. It wasn't the first time that people were being punished.
I used the same logic you used for cancelling people.

magz
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30 Jan 2023, 3:44 pm

You're beating a very strange straw man while not answering actual questions.

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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 4:02 pm

magz wrote:

You're beating a very strange straw man while not answering actual questions.

I just proved your logic invalid there, but Ok, as you wish.

Joe90
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30 Jan 2023, 4:03 pm

Quantum duck wrote:

I was not saying it means respect. It definitely does not mean respect. It is used by people who are not willing to treat other people as fully human to label and dismiss the behavior being requested of them that they are not willing to do.

Example: a female firefighter asks to be referred to as a firefighter rather than a fireman - person who doesn’t want to learn and use a new term says “that’s just political correctness. It has always been fireman and if you insist on being one, that is what I will call you.” Firefighter says “I find that dismissive and feel like it implies women are not welcome.” Person responds “snowflake!” Sadly snowflake the firefighter will still save rude person’s life at the risk of her own.

Snowflake is not the same as wimp. Snowflake means focusing too much on political activism. Wimp is me; scared of everything. I don't care if I'm the only one at work who uses a sign that says ''Men At Work'', it doesn't make me feel inferior as a woman, but I could never be a firefighter because I'm scared of fires.

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IsabellaLinton
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30 Jan 2023, 4:14 pm

Snowflake doesn't mean political activism.
It means the person is very fragile and delicate and thinks they're unique, or need special care.
Like ... an actual snowflake.

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Silence23
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30 Jan 2023, 5:16 pm

magz wrote:

Culture does not "reflect real world". Culture is a part of real world. All the things I listed and more.

Terence McKenna would disagree:

"We are caged by our cultural programming. Culture is a mass hallucination, and when you step outside the mass hallucination you see it for what it's worth."

That being said, I think it's not reasonable to give such importance to words like "man", "woman", etc. Someone calls a man a girl? So what. Humans are stupid. Why would you care? Don't make your mental wellbeing depend on the thoughts of other people, or on the words they use. Care about your friends and family, not about strangers.

magz
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31 Jan 2023, 2:16 am

Dengashinobi wrote:

magz wrote:

You're beating a very strange straw man while not answering actual questions.

I just proved your logic invalid there, but Ok, as you wish.

I claim that backlash for rudeness is something universal and weather it's "okay" or "not okay" requires case-by-case approach.
You have not proven it invalid, you ignored it and "proven invalid" something I never claimed.

And you still didn't answer what is your problem with defining the terms to use in this discussion. Again reminding you of your accusations of me evading questions. Your turn. Answer.

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