For fun: lets create a religion...

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I asked ChatGPT: "Summarize the character and personality of the god Apollo":




He sounds like a run-of-the-mill Narcissist. Nice choice for your "devil"!

Very true-to-life.

If our made-up religion can't articulate what Narcissists and Machiavellians are, enumerating all their tricks, warning up and down how to stay away from them, and avoid letting them get into positions of power and authority, then I say the religion has failed. This is the great failure - at a group level, at an institutional level - to be avoided.

Here's a great video on leadership (Simon Sinek is the speaker), which I felt nails how when selecting a leader, ultimately trust should be selected on, not competency wielded by a psychologically abusive and domineering jerk:

I think being a Narcissist or Machiavellian is just part of the job description for inventing a religion in most cases. The vast majority of people who do that are Narcisist/Machiavellian.....People like Jim Jones David Koresh and Charles Manson.

Wow, that's a gargantuan paradox, isn't it? A religion almost certainly needs a narcissist/machiavellian to get off the ground, which in turn all but guarantees that the religion's doctrine will contain no safeguards or warnings about narcissism or machiavellianism. How could the narcissistic/machiavellianistic leader afford to undermine himself in his own doctrine, by warning everyone about his own salesmanship-optimizing and reputation-optimizing tricks (and other manifold nasty manipulativeness)? He would put himself out of business, right from the get-go.

I hereby name this the "CapedOwl paradox". My contribution to religion.

Creating my own religion isn't really my idea of fun

I think I got trolled once and accused of brainwashing but it might not have been aimed at me to be fair
But it did make me wonder how things might look sometimes to the outside looking in

Anyway that doesn't really matter anymore

I'm way too much of a lone wolf to be some kind of cult leader

And also I think it's fair to say that I just don't have to skill either

And apart from that I do like it when people come together and create a good energy that's as far as it goes for me

But I really like your thread Kadan
It's nice and refreshing and that's what's needed sometimes

One of the only examples of a religious movement founder who wasnt known to be a big narcissist was Alexander Campbell who founded the Restorationist Movement of Christianity.

@CapedOwl

Thank you for your feedback maestro, I appreciate the clarifications and further delving into our points of view, ways of understanding reality. I'm but a limited thinker and am grateful for all motivated discussions and points of view. (as long as my spoon supply allows )

- A nice summary of the build up to the historical start of our current organized religions. And can agree with the position that some of these shamans were actually on to something. the something they were on to is where I think our viewpoints diverge.
I was, as you, fully captivated by the mysticism and "un-explained" phenomena our rich global traditions of shamanism and natural religions brought (and are still bringing) forth.
But I have in my adult life, also had the 'pleasure' of working with many neuro-scientists and have seen first hand the deficits and power of human brains. leaving me in my current agnostic state.



-> Thank you for your clear commentary here. Indeed, any religion worth its salt should in it also provide a pathway to growth of our practical as well as spiritual lives. otherwise, as part of the Hebrew bible and many of the Taoist 'Tao Te Ching' and 'Zhuangzi' are. They are 'only' a gathering of practical legislative documents.
Again where I offer another path stemming from my experience and agnostic worldview is on the inclusion of "unseen beings or deities". This can of course stem from a difference in definition between you and me on these terms. I am agnostically leaving lots and lost of room for unknown things, fields and or entities. But resist the notion of deity or god, because of this: to a caveman we in our current evolutionary state with the technology we've discovered through falsifiable scientific principles we would be seen by them as "deities". As such I prefer to define them as simply unknown and I do not deify them as that (for me personally) would include an unmerited value judgement.

Kind regards,
Kada

Texasmoneyman300
and CapedOwl,

Thank you for your feedback and inspired discussion.
I propose that we should perhaps look at and define what we are looking for in a religion.
Does 'religion' or religiosity need to give us tools to value-estimate others and serve to protect our own lives?
Or are these, as I am seeing more and more people push for these days, a subject better left to legal- and governmental- agencies? (pre-requiring of course that these agencies have no vested or conflicting interests )...
If we follow this school of thought, perhaps religion's main goals could be more focused around, morality in general, and offer a more high-level algorithmic and mystical approach to value itself...

kind regards,
Kada

Maestra Babybird, thank you for your feedback.
and indeed, there is no need, for me personally, to have a top to the hierarchy of 'religion', a god or high-priest or pope or Babybird in white robes wearing a pointy hat.

The gathering of people, creating a sense of community, good energy as you put it, telling stories, sharing experiences, is what started our human religious endeavor in the first place
We revere/admire those with a talent to guide others through stories or storylines for a reason, it speaks to a deep human-need our brains have for context and knowing where the limits lie.

nice catch,
Kada

I dont really require all that much but I would at least like the religion to get tax-exempt status. I would be willing to be the Chief Finance Officer of the religion...I heard online religions can be tax exempt. I would be willing to manage the financial affairs of the religion. I am also willing to be the figurehead of this joke religion as I have 25 years of experience as a pastor. I think our religion could serve as a sort of mutual aid network for the disabled and neurodiverse and we could maybe eventually lend money for homes and other stuff.to members for no interest in a similar way that the Amish does. We could have each member be a pastor or priest in the new religion.Maybe we could ordain people to do weddings over the internet which could a good recurring revenue stream. We could maybe have our own religious order...Our religion could provide affordable housing to some members. Maybe we could even have our religion provide our own insurance or mutual aid for healthcare costs.

Thank you Texasmoneyman300,

And I present to you all our Grand Inquisitor of Perspective: Texasmoneyman300

I pray to the god of the "s**t end of the stick"

Thank you for giving me the s**t end of the stick oh lord
For without this to fend of the monsters I think I would be dead

I have an even worse paradox. No religion in its right mind would ever acknowledge the existence of Autism. Just as a shrewd shoe salesman delights when someone comes along who is bad at budgeting money - all the better to upsell the fanciest, most expensive pair of shoes possible - so too would a religion delight in the Autistic coming along, who often have a vulnerability when it comes to emotional intelligence, which can be exploited.

A religion has no incentive to support the Autistic in their needs to overcome such vulnerabilities, and has every incentive to exploit these vulnerabilities; to convert them - by way of clever rules, customs, and doctrinal plot devices - into the very best of sheep, possibly the most loyal of all, amongst their flock of generic - not Autistic - followers.

Can we add the Feast of Maximum Occupancy to our holy days?

That would be awesome. It would have a mountain of burgers, and also a mountain of pizza. There would also be retro video games