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Bunno
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10 Nov 2025, 8:11 am

cyberdora wrote:
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Thats one of the key differences between the right and the left that the left can't understand - the left wing presumably because of it's "inclusivity" feels compelled to defend everyone in it's ranks up to and including the lunatics and evil tyrants, and it seems they assume that of the right - but most actual right of centres would think hitler & anyone who speaks good of him to be some kind of C***.


Yes but clinging to antiquated concepts of identity inevitably lead to ostracism, separation and ethnonationalism. It's a balancing act and in many parts of the world (like the US) the tipping point and spillover has led to outcomes have been disastrous socially.

And WOOOSH my point is illustrated.

All of the nightmares you state may well happen and yes they'll probably come from a very ugly "right", but the seeds of division I see being sown today are generated and nurtured by policies such as the "socially correcting" ideals of the left; the problem is too many disciples/useful idiots of the left can’t/won't vision beyond its good intentions and simplistic ideas that may be wonderful in theory but have disastrous unintended consequences when crudely bludgeoned upon a people.

the rise of the right will be a justifiable backlash in the minds of those within it - You are not required to justify, personally reconcile or embrace their sentiment in order to emphasise enough to placate it/them. Or you could be righteous and meet it head on... but in more likelihood you can just join in - because when it happens most people, including those people you know and love and respect, will actually do exactly that.

You can depict the "right" as a latent evil force if that helps you, but why is it everyone so minded is happy just to be pleased with themselves for opposing it and reviles the idea of trying to get under the skin?

I'm a sparky and my job involves a fair bit of fault-finding; few faults can be fixed until you break down and understand exactly what's going on. Most people don't care what caused their fault though, even when you try to explain something particular about their setup that would be very beneficial to them, their eyes just glaze and they humour you, they just want to be told its fixed, or that you can fix it.



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10 Nov 2025, 8:17 am

Carbonhalo wrote:
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The "white right will always suck" cuts to the core of whats wrong with western lefties, it seems to be the entire ideology in a nutshell, to the point that what are actual fanatical far-right wing extremists (of non-western origin) are being defended and whitewashed, as far as I can tell, simply because they're in the crosshairs of worry for western right-of-centre types. "

I cannot extract the sense in this.
So the left is defending the extreme right because the centre right don't like them?

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In fact the left sells out it's every last value in attacking "the right"

I don't see the US left as the ones attacking or pointing the finger, that seems a pretty exclusive Trump tactic.
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Thats one of the key differences between the right and the left that the left can't understand - the left wing presumably because of it's "inclusivity" feels compelled to defend everyone in it's ranks up to and including the lunatics and evil tyrants,

There we go... Evil tyrants?... That must mean Obama and Biden who are clearly genocidal warmongers.
Lunatics?.. you rarely see that word without a pointed Trump finger.

The only attacks I see the left making are against general stupidity and mindless parroting, as opposed to the directly personal insults spewing from the world's biggest insider trader.


I's suggest that if the only attacks you can see are all in one direction, then it's about your capacity to see.



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15 Dec 2025, 6:57 am

Nick Fuentes and the Problem of ‘Prestige Inflation’ - Seth Mandel for Commentary

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Much like Pinocchio, Nick Fuentes insists he is a real boy. Personally nonthreatening but oddly creepy—also like Pinocchio—Fuentes’s true popularity is the subject of much speculation.

The stakes are high: Fuentes defends Hitler and Stalin and instructs young right-leaning men in the most provocative ways to express racism and misogyny. His cartoonish anti-Semitism has inspired Tucker Carlson to help Fuentes gain a more mainstream audience. This, in turn, has divided the right between those who think the good guys won World War II on one side and Tucker and his sycophants on the other who, like Fuentes, wonder if Churchill was actually the villain of the story.

The Tucker/Fuentes faction is outnumbered, that much is crystal clear. But outnumbered by just how many? And is that gap closing?

Those questions are partially answered by a new study of Fuentes’s online activity and support. The findings are both encouraging and ominous.

Fuentes’s online popularity in raw numbers is staggering. The Network Contagion Research Institute wanted to know how that came to be. So they took the most recent 20 tweets from each of several high-follower, high-engagement Twitter/X accounts and examined all of the retweets for all of those tweets. One of the users studied was Elon Musk, the owner of the platform, so if even Musk was outperformed algorithmically, it could be a sign of unusual activity.
And lo and behold, he was. “The data show that Nick Fuentes obtains an extraordinarily outsized number of retweets within the first 30 minutes (and first 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and 20 minutes) of each of his posts. His early engagement outpaces that of even X’s #1 most-followed account (Elon Musk).”

How was this mastery of the algorithm—superior to that of the algorithm’s owner—made possible? Here’s what NCRI found.

The majority of Fuentes’s retweets in that time span came from accounts that retweeted multiple Fuentes tweets in the study group, the first sign of inorganic engagement. In other words, there is a large group of accounts seemingly waiting to retweet Fuentes’s tweets as soon as they go up.

The next question is: Who are these accounts? It turns out that a staggering 92 percent of them are anonymous: no real name, photo, contact or location information. A majority of them were also “groypers,” the Fuentes-types’ tribal nickname, or those whose posts are “almost exclusively” interactions with Fuentes.

Moreover, the study found, a massive amount of the accounts boosting Fuentes were foreign, evidence that the Fuentes social-media phenomenon is reliant on “low-cost amplification clusters and engagement farms that foreign actors often use to manufacture virality, distort platform metrics, and manipulate recommendation systems.”

Finally, Fuentes explicitly directs his followers and viewers to boost his tweets, which might violate Twitter’s terms of service.

What does this mean? That Fuentes’s social media dominance is manufactured. That’s the encouraging part—that it still takes a coordinated foreign farming machine to make someone with the worst opinions imaginable this popular.

But manufactured doesn’t mean “fake.” Fuentes exists, and his show on Rumble attracts a large live viewing. Furthermore, even a fraction of his social media audience would represent a discouragingly large number of real people who like him and share some or all of his unhealthy fixations.

Fuentes is also undeniably talented. His impish performance combined with his Peter Pannish stature makes it easy to forget he is an actual white nationalist who spreads some of the most dangerous ideas on the planet. That’s an obvious problem, because self-deprecating cynicism is harder to keep out of the mainstream than raging skinhead monologues.

There’s another problem, and it has to do with the way partisanship infects everything in American public discourse. Disaffected right-wing young men are quick to embrace provocation for its own sake, believing that there must be a connection between their own misery and the library of ideas that have been withheld from them by gatekeepers. And telling them that something is “offensive” only makes it more attractive to many of them.

And Fuentes gets bipartisan help. The NCRI study found something anyone paying attention has seen recently: “Since September 2025, there has been a noticeable shift in which visual narratives around Nick Fuentes changed dramatically. Previously described and shown in ghoulish, unattractive terms; his image became presented as extremely appealing, even for ostensibly liberal-left outlets.”

And “high-status” descriptions of him in the mainstream media have exploded. Some left-of-center outlets such as the New York Times are telling their audience that, while Fuentes is bad, he is also extremely important. That grows his audience. Others who ostensibly oppose his ideas want very badly to be able to tag all of conservatism with Fuentes’s stink. They have a strong ideological incentive to boost Fuentes’s celebrity even though they have a moral obligation to do the opposite. The result is an ecosystem of negative partisanship that elevates knowingly evil people and ideas. We can call this “prestige inflation,” because Fuentes’s status is manufactured in part by people who want the public to believe that following him is an important part of understanding modern American politics.

Whatever happens with Fuentes, this is a blueprint for foreign actors to follow if they want to derail American civic culture.

To be clear, the mainstream media were the last ones to the party regarding Fuentes. They did not create him or groom him for stardom, and they are not primarily responsible for him. But they should absolutely stop inflating him. And right-wingers who like the repugnant Fuentes should confront how easily they became dupes for foreign actors under the guise of “America first.” Conservatives used to understand that evil exists and isn’t made less evil just because it bothers liberals.


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cyberdora
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15 Dec 2025, 4:43 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Moreover, the study found, a massive amount of the accounts boosting Fuentes were foreign, evidence that the Fuentes social-media phenomenon is reliant on “low-cost amplification clusters and engagement farms that foreign actors often use to manufacture virality, distort platform metrics, and manipulate recommendation systems.”


I admit this was an eye opener. And the foreign accounts supporting far right white supremacy are completely from left field. Individuals from countries normally targeted by the far right (India, Pakistan, east Asia, Mexico and South America) are throwing online support (including financial) behind white racists. One example I saw an American influencer post comments about her wedding video with her black husband. Instead of the usual American racist trolls, most of the trolling comments came from India and China. One Chinese netizen told her she is going to "contaminate her bloodline". :roll:

Social media has made racism great again...



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16 Dec 2025, 8:28 am

Antisemitism tensions rise as NYC Young Republicans host the far-right

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The guest list at the New York Young Republican Club’s annual gala on Saturday included white nationalists, antisemitic conspiracy theorists, and a Jewish City Councilwoman, who ultimately decided not to attend.

Inna Vernikov, a Jewish City Council member who represents a south Brooklyn district with a large Russian Jewish population, did not attend despite being promoted as an “honored guest.” Vernikov, who was one of a few politicians to back out, later suggested on social media that her absence was connected to antisemitism on the right.

Those who did attend the gala included a NYYRC member and former George Santos staffer who had posted a video depicting Jews as cockroaches, costing him his job on Matt Gaetz’s news show; politicians from Germany’s far-right party which the country officially labeled an extremist group; Jared Taylor, the editor of a white supremacist website called American Renaissance; and Sneako, the streamer who posts antisemitic content and has said “people are sick of hearing about the Holocaust.”

Meanwhile, avowed antisemite Nick Fuentes said he received an invite and made the trip to New York — even though the New York Young Republican Club said by email on Monday that he “was never formally invited.”

Fuentes was seen lingering outside Cipriani, the upscale restaurant where the gala took place, Politico reported, but did not attend the event itself. He recorded a stream with Sneako following the black-tie affair, saying his invite had been rescinded at the last minute to avoid a potential “revolt.”

GOP debate over antisemitism intensifies after NY gala
On Sunday, the day after the gala, Vernikov took to X to post about the Republicans’ growing antisemitism problem, saying, “I will DISASSOCIATE myself from any event, individual, or organization whether Democrat or Republican, that welcomes these vile bigots into their mist, defends them or amplifies their voices,” referring to figures like Fuentes, Carlson and Candace Owens.

Antisemitic rhetoric “has fully infiltrated the Democratic Party,” Vernikov wrote on X, adding, “Unfortunately today the same venom has entered corners of the conservative movement and the hard RIGHT WING of the Republican Party.”

Then she named names, writing, “Lunatics like Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, who spew bigoted, racist and antisemitic rhetoric, should be condemned and excommunicated from the Republican Party never to be welcomed again.”

Vernikov declined to comment further on the event.

The gala was hosted by Matan Even, an 18-year-old Israeli-American YouTuber known for his pranks, such as crashing a 2022 Game Awards speech to thank his “Reform Orthodox rabbi, Bill Clinton.” Even’s humor, which involved singing the “Spongebob Squarepants” theme song onstage, seemingly did not land. Even is Jewish but has recorded streams with Sneako despite the latter’s use of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

Right-wing pundit and activist Jack Posobiec was the event’s keynote speaker, and delivered a fiery speech in which he spoke about Charlie Kirk’s death while holding a rosary.

The far-right Alternative for Germany party, or AfD, was represented at the gala by about 20 lawmakers at the state, federal and EU levels. The AfD has drawn criticism for using slogans similar to the Nazi party’s and was classified this year as a right-wing extremist organization by Germany’s domestic intelligence agency.

Rep. Dan Goldman, the Democratic congressman whose district includes Lower Manhattan, where the gala was held, wrote earlier on Saturday that the NYYRC was “rolling out the red carpet for leaders of Germany’s Nazi-cosplaying AfD party.”

“I condemn it in the strongest of terms, as should my New York Republican colleagues,” he wrote. “The AfD and their bigotry is not welcome in NY-10.”

At the gala, a protester wearing a Nazi armband was removed after popping up from his seat and reportedly yelling “I guess we’re all Nazis!” In a video recorded outside after his removal, the protester, who later said he was Jewish, pointed to the Nazi symbol and said, “This is what this event represents,” naming specifically the invitations of Vish Burra — the man who posted a video depicting Jews as roaches — and of AfD officials.

The NYYRC’s Twitter account countered accusations of being “Nazis” by writing that “the only swastika in the room was held by a left-wing freak protester who we forcefully booted from the premises.”

The protester was told to “go back to Israel” by an attendee, who then accepted the swastika banner from the protester and left with it.

Stefano Forte, the club’s president, spoke defiantly about the NYYRC’s partnership with the AfD.

“You want us to denounce the AfD? You want us to denounce our allies? You want us to denounce those that stand with us?” he asked.

“Well here’s a denunciation. We unequivocally denounce the fake news media that distorts the truth to put us in danger,” he said, referring to right-wingers being labelled “Nazis” as leading to assassination attempts on Trump and Charlie Kirk.

Forte also declared that the club was “prepared to endorse” Trump for a third presidential term in 2028, drawing loud applause.


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24 Dec 2025, 3:06 pm

Ben Shapiro is mounting a last stand against right-wing antisemitism. It’s not going well.

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On the first day of AmericaFest, Turning Point USA’s convention in Phoenix, Ben Shapiro lit into a host of conservatives that he said were “frauds and grifters.”

He listed Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Steve Bannon as “charlatans who claim to speak in the name of principle but actually traffic in conspiracism and dishonesty.” Together, he said on Thursday, they presented a danger to the conservative movement.

Shapiro was extending an assault that he began earlier in the week during a speech at the Heritage Foundation, a heart of conservatism that has been thrown into turmoil by its president’s backing of Carlson after Carlson hosted the Holocaust denier and avowed antisemite Nick Fuentes on his podcast.

An Orthodox Jew and avowed supporter of Israel, the conservative pundit has been mounting a public effort to repudiate antisemitism and similarly aligned forces within his own party. His campaign comes as the GOP’s younger flank have become increasingly disillusioned with American support for Israel in the aftermath of its war in Gaza.

Conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel have proliferated in young right-wing spaces, to the point where Shapiro — who has long preferred to focus on conservative culture-war issues — is now staking his future on rooting them out.

But Shapiro’s address did not go over well with everybody. Much of the energy at AmericaFest, which TPUSA staged in the shadow of the shocking murder by the group’s founder Charlie Kirk earlier this year, appeared to be lining up behind the figures he targeted — several of whom, like Carlson, also took the stage.

“To hear calls for deplatforming and denouncing people at a Charlie Kirk event, I’m like, what? That’s hilarious,” Carlson said in his own speech. Yet he also took the time to defend his thoughts about Jews. “I’m not an antisemite for a very specific reason. Not because it’s unpopular or my donors don’t like it. I’m not an antisemite because antisemitism is immoral in my religion.”

Carlson wasn’t alone in his disdain for the Daily Wire CEO who, for years, had been considered a tastemaker for the young right. Steve Bannon, as part of a speech in which he also called to “re-Christianize America” and mocked the recent murder of Jewish director and Trump critic Rob Reiner, called Shapiro a “cancer” to conservatism.

And Owens, Shapiro’s own former protege, said, “f**k you, Ben Shapiro.” She made the comment on her YouTube page, where she has been promoting conspiracy theories that Israel had some involvement in Kirk’s murder.

And in remarks to Vanity Fair while at the conference, Kelly, too, countered Shapiro. The former Fox News host blasted him as overly concerned with Israel and said that he and Bari Weiss, the Jewish CBS News editor-in-chief recently in hot water after she pulled a “60 Minutes” story that reflected badly on the Trump administration, are themselves fueling antisemitism.

“Tucker is not making antisemites. They are,” Kelly, a friend of Carlson’s, told Vanity Fair.

She went on to describe Shapiro and Weiss as part of “this very loud group of pro-Israel activists that is trying to make this the litmus test about whether you get to call yourself a conservative, and they lack standing to do that.”

Kelly also called Shapiro “Israel first,” adding, ““And I’m sorry, but his behavior has proven that charge to be correct. Why would you divide the American conservative movement—which was gelling, which was becoming much more cohesive for a moment after Charlie died—over Israel?”

Other conference attendees Vanity Fair spoke to said they were siding with Shapiro’s opponents, and some were happy to debate Hitler’s merits in-between sessions.

Shapiro’s effort to hold a line in the sand is reverberating through the highest levels of government. Vice President JD Vance, who also spoke at the conference and is himself close with Carlson, pointedly did not denounce antisemitism during his own address. Instead, Vance seemed to discourage the idea that conservatives should be excommunicating anyone based on their views.

The showdown at AmericaFest was the latest visible sign of how the next generation of conservatives are increasingly turning against Israel while embracing antisemitic talking points.

Openly antisemitic influencers like Fuentes and Myron Gaines are enjoying a rise in popularity on the right, and Gaines attended AmericaFest himself. The podcaster wore a sweater with a picture of Cookie Monster over an oven and the phrase “Let Em Cook” — a right-wing meme mocking Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust.

A recent focus group of Gen Z conservatives, conducted by conservative think tank The Manhattan Institute, also found that several of them espoused antisemitic and pro-Hitler views. One declared that Jews are “a force for evil,” adding, “I don’t see why we support Israel. I think Israel’s a very evil state. The genocide in Gaza, killing all these poor people. And the only reason we really support them is because they are the biggest donors. We have AIPAC, and these are all Jewish-run organizations.”

Asked what they thought of Hitler, one respondent said, “I think he was a great leader, to be honest.” Another, who called himself “Jewish by blood,” said he had read “Mein Kampf” and concluded, “I strangely understood where he was coming from as far as wanting to improve the national state of Germany.”

Histories of antisemitic rhetoric are also continuing to trail more Trump appointees to top government posts. This week Jewish Insider reported that a senior State Department nominee, Jeremy Carl, has stated, “Jews have often loved to play the victim rather than accept that they are participants in history,” continuing that Jews have a “misplaced religious impulse” because they are “searching for the Messiah that had actually been found.” He added that Jews “love the Groypers,” a reference to the antisemitic movement led by Fuentes, “because they’re just so discrediting of anyone who would ask questions about any of this.”

Carl, a Jewish convert to Christianity, was nominated to the post of assistant secretary of state for international organizations, but his nomination expired at the end of this year’s Senate session without his formal appointment.

Meanwhile, Rep. Elise Stefanik, a pro-Israel MAGA firebrand who had taken on campus antisemitism as a central cause, announced on Friday she was dropping her bid for New York Governor. Stefanik will also not seek reelection to Congress, leaving conservative (and many centrist) Jews with one less ally on the right who seemed to have a fast track to Trump.

A right-wing schism, with Jews and Israel at the center of the divide, is increasingly taking shape. More conservative intellectuals continue to exit the Heritage Foundation, the influential think tank, over its founder’s defense of Carlson. Several are migrating over to a new venture started by former Vice President Mike Pence, a pro-Israel Evangelical who has come out in opposition to Trump since his work in the first Trump administration.

It’s all building up to what Andrew Kolvet, a close friend and associate of Kirk who has taken over many TPUSA duties including hosting Kirk’s eponymous show since the founder’s murder, says are the conservative movement’s new flashpoints: Israel and antisemitism.

“Charlie would go to some campuses, and like 50 to 60% of the questions were about Israel,” Kolvet recently told The New York Times’ Ross Douthat. “For two years that was true.” Young conservatives have been questioning not only the influence of pro-Israel lobbyists like AIPAC, but also the entire US-Israel relationship, Kolvet said.

Kolvet added, “I think Israel has become a symbolic battle about: What does ‘America First’ really mean?”


There is a little discussed Evangelical Protestant vs fringe Traditionalist Catholicism element in the groyper vs Christian Zionist clash.


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cyberdora
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24 Dec 2025, 6:58 pm

Shapiro's gymnastics to promote Israel in the conservative community has taken a battering since Netanyahu's retribution in Gaza post-Oct 7. But antisemitism didn't magically appear among US conservatives, its already had a long tradition and Gaza has provided an excuse for it to be fashionable again. Gaza has also illustrated something trump already sold to MAGA, namely why are American taxpayers bankrolling a foreign country like Israel or Ukraine (engaging in war) when Americans are in debt? Shouldn't conservatives put American first?

And its not just Fuentes or Myron Gaines. conservative podcasters have become immensely popular with Gen Z. the message is clearly getting through to Gen Z conservatives who don't already don't give a crap about foreign conflicts or which side is right (Israel or HAMAS). trump and Vance have explicitly said "its ok to be white" and "put America first".

testing the water? anti-woke culture is very popular, in comedy and every popular podcaster online. It crossed over into mainstream now. Its not just young people engaging in counter-culture to tick off parents. Social media has normalised this behaviour.

Ben Shapiro is looking more and more like a dinosaur among young people.



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24 Dec 2025, 11:09 pm

MAGA infiltrating American University administration, sacking staff for doing their job



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19 Jan 2026, 12:13 pm

The right's "woke" counterpart


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19 Jan 2026, 7:57 pm

Because the academic institutions and K-12, the entertainment industry and mainstream media have been quietly infiltrated by the woke liberals since the 1970s.

Woke "liberalism" as we know it today is an odd mutation of Marxism but the opressor-opressed is shifted from economic class and applied to social and cultural issues, hence white guilt and other concepts.


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20 Jan 2026, 3:17 am

SailorsGuy12 wrote:
Because the academic institutions and K-12, the entertainment industry and mainstream media have been quietly infiltrated by the woke liberals since the 1970s.

Woke "liberalism" as we know it today is an odd mutation of Marxism but the opressor-opressed is shifted from economic class and applied to social and cultural issues, hence white guilt and other concepts.


Yeah...no. Maybe liberal arts teachers.
Right wing neo-capitalism is strongly represented in every business degree and every Law degree

STEM (engineering, IT, design, Science) has always been conservative and in 2026 leans toward industry, commercialisation and patents.

Only gullible MAGA types who have never actually set foot in a university believe academia is woke.

As for entertainment and media, please don't make me laugh. Media moguls are as woke as Genghis Khan or Attilla the hun. Their products are driven by the marketplace.