MONKEY
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Joined: 3 Jan 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,896
Location: Stoke, England (sometimes :P)
02 Jul 2010, 5:47 pm
as apes?
As many of you should be aware, we are technically classified as a species of great ape, along with gorillas, orangutans, chimps and bonobos. We all share the similarities and the characteristics that make up the ape family: long limbs, hands with opposable thumbs used for precision grip, colour vision, complex social structures (except for orangutans who tend to live alone), large brains and high intelligence, lack of tail etc. Also, with chimps and bonobos being our closest living relatives, we share compatible blood groups and succesful blood transfusions can be carried out from chimp to human and vice versa and we can also catch each other's diseases. Below is a picture of the skeletons of a human, gorilla, chimp, orangutan and gibbon (gibbons are not great apes, but are the "lesser" apes). Apart from the individual features on the skeletons of each species, for example us having shorter arms and gorillas having wider rib cages, our bones are all pretty much situated at the same place and in the same positions.
Now I would like to know how followers of christianity (and other faiths of course) feel about this classification and do you agree or disagree with this decision made by scientists? Do you believe that maybe being an ape would defeat the object of being created in god's image? Or do you think that maybe god intended us to be a part of this family? Maybe god doesn't have a particular image and is more like a force? I am curious to see what followers of faith feel about the current classifications and do you think we are apes or no? BTW, I do not believe in god and am more than happy to call myself an ape, apes are awesome ^_^
Oh yes, before we start, I don't want a flame war, debates are fine but no falling out. And please, no Godwin's law 
02 Jul 2010, 6:16 pm
02 Jul 2010, 6:59 pm
02 Jul 2010, 7:49 pm
What? am I not allowed to say that Hitler's philosophy was based on Evolution, therefore Evolution must be false?
02 Jul 2010, 8:05 pm
02 Jul 2010, 8:08 pm
02 Jul 2010, 8:11 pm
What? am I not allowed to say that Hitler's philosophy was based on Evolution, therefore Evolution must be false?
SPEAK THE TRUTH!!
Evolution not only says, but it DEMANDS that the Aryan people purify their bloodlines by removing the impure Jewish creatures from our gene pool. Anything else is a denial of the Darwinian dogma of survival of the fittest.
(wait??? wrong story....)
Ok, I went back and did the research, and Jews are bloody geniuses. Evolution not only says, but it demands that the Jewish people purify their bloodlines by removing the impure Aryan creatures from our gene pool. Anything else is a denial of the Darwinian dogma of survival of the fittest.
MONKEY
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Joined: 3 Jan 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,896
Location: Stoke, England (sometimes :P)
03 Jul 2010, 3:57 am
Do you have any references you can link me too where chimps and bonobos are shown genetically to be our closest living relatives or is this based on appearances only?
If it is on appearance only I can see the 'similarities' of course but if you mean genetically, my understanding of genetics says they're not, pigs are.
There have been many tests and studies done by many scientists that conclude that chimps are bonobos are the closest living relative, they wouldn't keep teaching it people if they weren't completely sure. Most studies have found between 97-99% of our DNA is shared, but of course that 2% does make a difference, because the mental abilities chaimps have, we have at a more advanced level so like a "chimp 2.0". Also, they only have 2 more chromasomes than us. Of course, pigs are close to us because we can carry their organs, and also their organs are the right size. I'm not going by appearances alone, I know there are animals that don't look like us but share genetic similarities.
Here are some examples of the genetic similarities:
Video description:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3vic82uARI[/youtube]
REST OF ARTICLE
03 Jul 2010, 4:31 am
Thank you for that Monkey...very interesting.
I can see myself spending all night reading about human/animal genetic similarities now I've started 
Peace ellomo
Ps....just noticed I didn't answer the question you were asking with this tread.......
Answer: I'm not a christian sorry so don't know
03 Jul 2010, 5:09 am
Woodfish
Deinonychus
Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 382
Location: alternating between Lothlórien and Rivendell
03 Jul 2010, 5:11 am
i remember listening to a podcast radio thing some moths ago:
http://www.philosophytalk.org/pastShows ... gaard.html
now i listened to it a little again. it is Philosophy Talk and they talk about Kierkegaard.
they also talk about faith and reason. i feel that that's one way to dicuss the OP. my feeling is we have both and need both. but they both have their limitations and their strengths. to me it seems faith is to do with core values. what really matters. life and death. love and hate. whereas reason is more like a tool. let's say a car or building .. mending a car.
so, to illustrate faith .. think of falling in love .. or having and loving a pet or one's family .. let's say i tell you i met a woman and i love her with all my heart. or that my dog means everything to me. if you then respond "prove it" 
that seems like you don't get it .. and like they said in philosophy talk, to even attempt proving it is a sign we don't get it or that it's thoroughly false .. off .. not right. IOW reason is here out of its depth. this is a matter of faith.
then consider a car. it doesn't work. does it have gas? is it the battery? the spark plugs? the gearbox? ... ... that seems to me the proper realm of reason .. logic. essentially a tool. infinitely useful but never essential.
how can we then tell where to use which? not sure .. maybe that's part of being human .. the human condition .. we got both .. use them reasonably lolol .. or in good faith ..
my feeling is ever since around the time of Plato this has been difficult terrain. i think maybe less so before that time.
IOW: to me personally matters of religion are clearly a matter of faith and not reason and to even attempt using reason is completely missing the point
big subject .. hardly scratching the surface here of course ..
DentArthurDent
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia
03 Jul 2010, 5:26 am
Sorry aspie here, cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or serious
The "Hebrew word "Kasheir," or "Kosher," means fit or proper. When applied to food, the term indicates that an item is fit for consumption" I was therefore of the assumption that the early Jewish/Islamic medicos had noticed the effects of trichinosis and correctly associated the symptoms with the consumption of pork?
03 Jul 2010, 5:27 am
http://www.philosophytalk.org/pastShows ... gaard.html
now i listened to it a little again. it is Philosophy Talk and they talk about Kierkegaard.
they also talk about faith and reason. i feel that that's one way to dicuss the OP. my feeling is we have both and need both. but they both have their limitations and their strengths. to me it seems faith is to do with core values. what really matters. life and death. love and hate. whereas reason is more like a tool. let's say a car or building .. mending a car.
so, to illustrate faith .. think of falling in love .. or having and loving a pet or one's family .. let's say i tell you i met a woman and i love her with all my heart. or that my dog means everything to me. if you then respond "prove it"
that seems like you don't get it .. and like they said in philosophy talk, to even attempt proving it is a sign we don't get it or that it's thoroughly false .. off .. not right. IOW reason is here out of its depth. this is a matter of faith.then consider a car. it doesn't work. does it have gas? is it the battery? the spark plugs? the gearbox? ... ... that seems to me the proper realm of reason .. logic. essentially a tool. infinitely useful but never essential.
how can we then tell where to use which? not sure ..
maybe that's part of being human .. the human condition .. we got both .. use them reasonably lolol .. or in good faith .. my feeling is ever since around the time of Plato this has been difficult terrain. i think maybe less so before that time.
IOW: to me personally matters of religion are clearly a matter of faith and not reason and to even attempt using reason is completely missing the point
big subject .. hardly scratching the surface here of course ..
It's an interesting concept but there are people with strong faith that are being served along their lines. For instance there is the repair garage that does not actually fix anything but merely has very well trained priests that pray over a broken car for God to fix it and the people trust that the car will be fixed. It works out well since most of the patrons have gained great health by doing a lot of walking.
Then there is the "ALL FAITH" fast food place where much fish and shell food from the Gulf area is served. A priest praysover each meal to guarantee it is safe. I have heard this enterprise is not doing too well but the local mortician that holds large stock in he restaurant is doing very well.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
03 Jul 2010, 5:48 am
03 Jul 2010, 5:51 am
03 Jul 2010, 5:52 am
Sorry aspie here, cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or serious
The "Hebrew word "Kasheir," or "Kosher," means fit or proper. When applied to food, the term indicates that an item is fit for consumption" I was therefore of the assumption that the early Jewish/Islamic medicos had noticed the effects of trichinosis and correctly associated the symptoms with the consumption of pork?
I was surprised by what Sand wrote but it could make sens too, metaphorically speaking.
But I've always been thinking about some medical and health conditions, more like DentArthurDent said: since cans and refregirators were yet to be invented, certain foods like pig could really be dangerous to human's life - not matter the climate and the ambient temperatures. Inuits didn't have that trouble since they shared and ate their food right away or knew how to keep it safe and also maybe there were no bacteries or viruses as dangerous as trichinosis in the Big North.
Edit: grammar's mitakes
Last edited by zena4 on 03 Jul 2010, 6:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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