What is so bad about socialism anyways?

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I admit I do not claim to follow any specific political ideology, but I do like a lot of things about socialism......the main concern with it of course would be the government abusing its power and trying to exert complete control. But anyways:

It is based on making sure everyone has access to things like healthcare, food and shelter......basically everyone pays taxes and everyone benifits.

Since it is rather true that everyone is selfish and many people will put their self intrest before all other things, the government would play the role of passing laws to limit this behavior and in turn laws that help the citizens.....not laws that appease Corporate overlords who pay their wages.

The citizens ideally would be well informed and thus the government would know if they try to pull any shenanigans the people will not allow it.

Anyways pure socialism would probably be just as bad as pure capitalism, but as far as the basic ideas of it I do not see what is so bad...or why it's considered evil by some. Try to keep it civil, but sometimes that does not happen.

good question. The socialist governments of Europe seem to be doing pretty well, in terms of upward mobility, compared to the US at the moment.

the whole not being free part. Socialism can not be applied without force.

^^^ Yeah, just look at all those poor, unfree folks (with excellent healthcare) in Canada and the UK.

which country best exhibits the type of socialism you'd like?

It would help a lot to know where your ideal is lived out so we can have a frame of reference.

"What is so bad about socialism anyways?"

The fact that it's a horribly ill-defined term, applying to various systems as disparte as a stateless network of workers cooperatives to a one-party coordinationist state to various form of state capitalism coupled with social welfare provisons.

^ See what I mean? Like, are Europe's governments really "socialist", as most socialist activsts don't seem to regard them as such (despite many governments being lead by "socialist" parties - hell, that one ex-IMF president who was briefly arrested was a member of France's Socialist Party, yet supported neoliberal reforms as IMF head that restricted the ability of countries to enact social welfare legislation).

They don't seem to happy over there in the UK right now but I don't really think of them as that much more socialistic than the US is. If you want to test how free you are, don't pay your taxes and see what happens.

That's the problem...

PS

I'm not rich enough to not pay taxes.

None of you have even the slightest clue as to what "socialism" means, at least according to actual socialist writers.

In the US, the Right interprets socialism in the Randian sense. They equate it with a redistribution of wealth, where honest, hardworking people pay to support the lifestyle of lazy, unemployed, crack-addicted illegal immigrants and other social parasites, rather than funding the military, police, firemen, public education, and social security, and most Americans are too stupid to know otherwise. Most of the "unemployed" people receiving welfare are retired. They're not lazy, they're just too old and sick to work. Isn't it a sick world we live in: while the country was struggling to recover from the worst economic collapse in modern times, Grandma and Grandpa were spending their youth fighting the greatest threat western civilization has ever faced, only for their country to turn its back on them in their old age.

Hey, does anybody find it ironic that two years ago the Republicans were trying to scare everybody off Obamacare, saying that it would require rationing so extreme that it would warrant government death panels, and now they're the ones making cuts to our healthcare programs to save money?

It's not brilliant by any means. A lot of people would go private if they could here in the UK but are stuck with the NHS through not having any other choice. Many NHS hospitals are absolutely filthy, breeding all sorts of bugs. In the UK the general advice is often not to go into hospital if you can possibly avoid it or go private.

The real reason why the NHS has limped on for so long is because it's a sacred cow to the left in this country. Personally, there are much better healthcare system in operation elsewhere in Europe and even in Singapore.

France, for instance has a health care system that I believe is even more expensive than that relating to the UK but produces far superior results.

Last edited by Tequila on 11 Aug 2011, 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Then, much of the time, they'd be spot on the money.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

applies to pretty much any system or organization

Yes and no.

The "unemployed" does not count retirees. That's a false argument right there. While the welfare roles are not expansive, there is also "corporate welfare" which is 10 times as much spent on regular welfare, and it's all about "buying votes" from special interests.

Socialism could work if your culture mandates that every man who can work does work. Some European nations embrace that kind of work ethic, showing little sympathy for those who CHOOSE to do nothing to contribute to society. That is not the case here in the USA. More so, most European nations have strict immigration policies and they are enforced. Not so here in the USA. You can't have "universal health care" and then have a flood of illegals coming into your nation. It would collapse your health care network in no time.

More so, socialism takes away choices and freedom. Canada isn't a "bad" place to live, but ask anyone who owns a motorcycle how bad it is. Excessive fees to own a motorcycle and have a license. High insurance rates. Severe penalties for minor infractions. Clearly, all of this denies the ability of the average Canadian to own and enjoy a motorcycle, and there are regular protests by the motorcycling community in Canada against many the draconian laws and legislative proposals up in Canada. There is little justification for any of this nonsense except that the government makes money off of having it in place. You might agree to pay 10% more in taxes for certain services, but do you want simple pleasures to become luxuries because of how much it costs just to get into the activity due to all the regulation and taxation?

What is your personal experience with Socialism?

Have you ever lived in a Socialist country?

Do you even understand what Socialism really is?

America has a socialized education system, socialized police, socialized fire departments, socialized road construction, etc etc etc. There's no rational reason we shouldn't have socialized healthcare. Either we are already a socialist country, or one more socialized system will not make us so.