Secular Theodicy

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In a post-xtian world what is the origin of evil?
Is it broken societies, reprobate humans or something else?
Why do people do bad stuff to other people?
Or maybe people are not as bad as we think?

In a post-Christian world, would it matter what the origin of evil is, as long as those who practice it are crushed like rotten fruit?

If you are crushing people than the definition of evil becomes more important.
My question if the world is messed up what is the cause.

I think a lot of bad happenings is simply down to The System.

I think generally people are pretty alright. As would be expected of me, I think we'd be a lot better in a more equitable system.

'Is the world more messed up than might be expected?' would be the first question, I think.

But I think for a lot of people The Problem of Evil has been replaced by The Problem of Altruism.

ETA. I guess it's all this thinking that's given me a headache...

Or perhaps some people are just born evil.

As the very name would suggest, there is no need for a theodicy if there is no God.

Evil is just what you get when people disagree over what is good.

Or what you get when people act on their own selfish interests without any regard -- or even contempt -- for the well-being of others.

Some people have become deaf to the better angels of their nature. And some people have no better angels at all.

ruveyn

Just to play devil's advocate here:

Not everyone would agree with that assessment, though, and that seems to be at the core of The_Walrus's statement. Ayn Rand often espoused the philosophical position that altruism was itself a source of evil. I personally disagree immensely with her-- but don't you suppose there could be those who would genuinely believe that? Or do you think it ultimately boils down to people just cynically rationalizing selfishness?

Faulty philosophies, or even lack of philosophy.

I far more respect the person that stands for something, than nothing.


In my experience, cold hearted nihilism. People, nations, companies or ideologies harbouring the belief they can exploit others to their own ends without consequence to their own lot.

Without these people you wouldnt have terrorists or criminals of passion. People feeling hard done by, and seeking revenge because of ways in which others had crossed them. You wouldnt have children in the developing hemisphere, dying on our TV screens.

Every vicious cycle has a cause and start.

People are a mixed bag, a spectrum if you will.

Some people harbour nothing but good, some are incapable of good. Then you have everyone in between . I agree with Ruveyn on that much.

Last edited by thomas81 on 05 Oct 2012, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No, I don't. If two people are starving, and one finds food, then eats it all himself while letting the other person continue to starve, that's evil -- acting on one's own selfish interests without regard to the needs of others.

People in America and Europe (Theist and Atheist alike) throw away tons of food per person each year, while people in third-world countries starve to death every day. Wouldn't you agree that this is evil?

The phenomenon itself is evil, but i would disagree that the citizens of first world nations are collectively responsible.

The main perpetrators are the authorities responsible for food distribution and the large supermarket corporations that destroy unsold foodstuff in wholesale quantities.

I cant speak for other people's families but mine makes a point of eating everything it purchases.

There is no single cause, which drives people to commit evil upon their fellow man. You can however, break the cause down into environment or heredity. Most children usually display personality characteristics which would be considered bad if it were committed by an adult ( stealing, inflicting pain, and lying), because most children display at least one of these traits we may assume that evil is too general to be taught and therefore must be innate( to some degree). Yet the intrinsic question remains why everyone does not turn into criminals. Well, chances are you were taught from an early age that bad behavior is unacceptable and wrong. Sometimes though, people only care about how it makes them feel or the reward reaped. This is why we have rules of law and a judicial system designed to deter and punish criminal activity. Unfortunately as mass murders demonstrates, some people hold their lives cheaply and are only concerned with a body count. This is why, in my opinion, religion of some shape plays a crucial role. Most religions have some form of punishment for crimes such as eternal damnation. Simply read the Divine Comedy and you can see the impact these beliefs have upon the criminal psyche. If a criminal meets all these speed bumps and does not deviate with their plans, we can say that they are either mentally ill,or put simply ... evil.

Stuff in life doesn't always go as we'd like. People are hurt or die. Disasters happen. There are inequalities and injustices. All of this stuff is known under the collective term of "evil".

Evil is a category. It doesn't have a simple "cause" because it isn't a single thing. Christianity (like all religions) tries to explain it, but has completely the wrong idea, trying to rationalise the random nature of existence by saying that evil is deliberate. It doesn't work, and the "problem of evil" has driven many away from the faith because it doesn't work.

People are not evil. They do things that we call evil, but no-one outside of cartoons deliberately sets out to do evil. We can be selfish, stupid, lazy, careless or ignorant, of course. But even then, much "evil" just happens. Everyone dies, for instance. We can do nothing to prevent this - we can slow it down, or hasten it, or do what we can to make it less unpleasant. But we can't stop it.

... what I said. Basically, genotype and (extended) phenotype.


By this line of reasoning, any country under Sharia law should be a utopian paradise of civility, tolerance, kindness, altruism and just plain goody-two-shoesness, given the length the Quran goes to describe the horror awaiting anyone in the great beyond when they fall out of favour with Allah, Most High (the word "fire" is used a lot ).

But you are right. Religion may indeed play a crucial role in deterring and punishing criminal activity. After all, we can't have all those *monstrous* homosexuals, adulterers, idolaters, apostates and witches running around corrupting the innate goodness of mankind with sin, now can we? Off with their heads...

Interestingly, Jainism (perhaps the most peaceful religion in the world) apparently does *not* have a concept of eternal damnation. My mileage might vary, though, as I have only a superficial knowledge of this religion.

Bottom line: A lot of "evil" may originate from religion itself, rather than being suppressed by it.