Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

dexkaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,967
Location: CTU, Los Angeles

20 Jan 2007, 5:38 pm

Yes, there really is such a thing, and their website is really lame. :roll:

wikipedia wrote:
The movement for Post-Autistic Economics (PAE) was born through the work of Sorbonne economist Bernard Guerrien. Started in Spring 2000 by group of disaffected French economics students, Post-Autistic Economics first reached a wider audience in June 2000 after an interview in Le Monde.

It was supported by the Cambridge Ph.D. students in 2001 with the publication of "Opening Up Economics: A Proposal By Cambridge Students" and is signed by 797 students.

:arrow:The term autistic is used in an informal way, synonymous to "closed-minded" or "self-absorbed". It has been criticized for using the medical diagnosis, autism, as a derogatory expression.

The movement is best seen as a forum of different groups critical of the current mainstream: from behavioral and heterodox to feminist, green economics and econo-physics.


Besides the absurd name, I would have to say that these economist types have a point...


_________________
Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas.


Flagg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,399
Location: Western US

20 Jan 2007, 5:55 pm

I cannot even figure out what they're talking about.



dexkaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,967
Location: CTU, Los Angeles

20 Jan 2007, 6:01 pm

Basically, from what I can tell, they're just saying that economics has stopped being "realistic" and has instead invented its own world in which to play around with. They believe that current economics focuses too much on complex, non-rational mathematical models rather than how the world really works.


_________________
Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas.


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

20 Jan 2007, 6:02 pm

Yeah, I've heard of it. They are opposed to all of the math involved in economics and the models that they consider to be unrealistic. I haven't looked over all of it and I am certain not to agree with some of it, but it does require some looking into though.



Flagg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,399
Location: Western US

20 Jan 2007, 6:08 pm

This sounds interesting.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

20 Jan 2007, 6:58 pm

dexkaden wrote:
Basically, from what I can tell, they're just saying that economics has stopped being "realistic" and has instead invented its own world in which to play around with. They believe that current economics focuses too much on complex, non-rational mathematical models rather than how the world really works.

Not non-rational. TOO rational!! Many heterodox economists doubt the focus of mainstream economics on rational man instead looking more at a man that does not act rationally so much as predictably.



dexkaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,967
Location: CTU, Los Angeles

20 Jan 2007, 7:05 pm

Right, that is what I meant, but I guess I just think that being too rational is the same thing as being non-rational. Or at least similar enough in my mind to not cause me any confusion.


_________________
Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas.


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

20 Jan 2007, 7:12 pm

dexkaden wrote:
Right, that is what I meant, but I guess I just think that being too rational is the same thing as being non-rational. Or at least similar enough in my mind to not cause me any confusion.

Well, the assumption of rationality is being challenged on whether or not it is a rational assumption with the heterodox economists arguing that assuming rationality is irrational.



dexkaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,967
Location: CTU, Los Angeles

20 Jan 2007, 7:14 pm

I think it is a rational assumption. Man is always rational and logical only by accident. Rationality means you allow for human emotion to affect decisions.


_________________
Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas.


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

20 Jan 2007, 7:19 pm

dexkaden wrote:
I think it is a rational assumption. Man is always rational and logical only by accident. Rationality means you allow for human emotion to affect decisions.

What is? That man is rational or irrational? I guess you mean that rationality is a rational assumption. I really did obfuscate more so than bring light in my last post but only because saying rational a ridiculous number of times is fun. I'd say that it is rational to claim that man tries to pursue his aims as best he can and this implies some tendency towards some level of rationality as not accounting for emotions in terms of improving one's conditions would be irrational.



dexkaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,967
Location: CTU, Los Angeles

20 Jan 2007, 7:35 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
dexkaden wrote:
I think it is a rational assumption. Man is always rational and logical only by accident. Rationality means you allow for human emotion to affect decisions.

What is? That man is rational or irrational? I guess you mean that rationality is a rational assumption. I really did obfuscate more so than bring light in my last post but only because saying rational a ridiculous number of times is fun. I'd say that it is rational to claim that man tries to pursue his aims as best he can and this implies some tendency towards some level of rationality as not accounting for emotions in terms of improving one's conditions would be irrational.


Saying most things a ridiculous number of times is fun. I define "it" as assuming man is a rational creature is a rational assumption."


_________________
Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas.


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

20 Jan 2007, 7:46 pm

dexkaden wrote:
Saying most things a ridiculous number of times is fun. I define "it" as assuming man is a rational creature is a rational assumption."

I think that the assumption is mostly accurate. It definitely is fun though to say something a ridiculous number of times.



dexkaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,967
Location: CTU, Los Angeles

20 Jan 2007, 7:51 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
dexkaden wrote:
Saying most things a ridiculous number of times is fun. I define "it" as assuming man is a rational creature is a rational assumption."

I think that the assumption is mostly accurate. It definitely is fun though to say something a ridiculous number of times.


So, we've now agreed on the assumption made by most economists that man is a rational being is correct enough in most cases to warrant the assumption in the first place.

Now what?


_________________
Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas.


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

20 Jan 2007, 8:06 pm

Based on that assumption we should recognize that it is rational to party.

Well, ok, since we have accepted that assumption as being true then we have to look at the other assumptions, such as that about corporate behavior, individual valuation, supply and demand, ask ourselves what we should assume for them, and then go around analyzing stuff.



dexkaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,967
Location: CTU, Los Angeles

20 Jan 2007, 8:14 pm

I love analyzing stuff. But before we analyze stuff, we ought to educate ourselves about the institution/behvior we are analyzing rather than taking our assumptions based on a single assumption and making them into theories, which we then try to prove by making more assumptions.

So before I analyze corporations as a whole institution, I ought to educate myself on the corporate business model, the corporate mentality, the corporate employee---rather than jump right in and make a generalized theoretical assertion that if "a" happens sometimes in "b," then "b" is obviously the root of all evil. Or, rather, if some corporate directors make decisions with negative effects, then obviously the corporation is the root of all evil.

Or I could just hire experts like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky to testify as to the validity of my assumption and make a "documentary" about it... (but I digress.)


_________________
Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas.


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

20 Jan 2007, 8:43 pm

dexkaden wrote:
I love analyzing stuff. But before we analyze stuff, we ought to educate ourselves about the institution/behvior we are analyzing rather than taking our assumptions based on a single assumption and making them into theories, which we then try to prove by making more assumptions.
Well, of course because the issues that we assume about are ones that we don't innately understand.
Quote:
So before I analyze corporations as a whole institution, I ought to educate myself on the corporate business model, the corporate mentality, the corporate employee---rather than jump right in and make a generalized theoretical assertion that if "a" happens sometimes in "b," then "b" is obviously the root of all evil. Or, rather, if some corporate directors make decisions with negative effects, then obviously the corporation is the root of all evil.
Definitely, you need to get an overall picture and see the entire nature of the issue, both the good and the bad things that happen. I mean, we cannot assume on the nature of a corporate action without looking at what corporations actually do.
Quote:
Or I could just hire experts like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky to testify as to the validity of my assumption and make a "documentary" about it... (but I digress.)

I like this way better though, it is easy, it is fun, and if we sell our assumptions well enough we can either just get rich or maybe even if we are lucky get in on the foundation of the new socialist economy and get positions oppressing the masses for the masses.