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skafather84
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11 Mar 2007, 3:46 am

why are so many people afraid of technology and the technological progress of man?


this question goes beyond simply the religious people who go against knowledge and technology as a sin of man against god....i'm talking the anarchists and leftists who believe that technology is a problem rather than the amazing help and solution that it has been for us.



Flagg
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11 Mar 2007, 3:52 am

I can prove technology is good for humans with a simple observation:

THERE ARE STILL HUMANS

If technology was more evil then good humans would have been ended by it long ago.


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calandale
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11 Mar 2007, 3:53 am

As a luddite studying Computer Science, I feel that you are hitting my very issue.

One of the big problems is that technology is treated as a form of religion itself. People don't understand it, and since it is undermining what they are used to, it is a very threatening one.

There is also the simple displacement issue. If you're losing your job, due to new technologies (which are enabling say call centers in India), you are going to be pissed.

For me, the biggest loss is the sense of community which once existed. Maybe I'm being romantic about this, and would never have fit into any group, but it's sure getting harder to connect with people face to face in an age when everyone is on their cell phones.



skafather84
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11 Mar 2007, 3:54 am

Flagg wrote:
I can prove technology is good for humans with a simple observation:

THERE ARE STILL HUMANS

If technology was more evil then good humans would have been ended by it long ago.



you try telling this to a punk rawk anarchist and see where it gets you.


i miss my roots but at the same time i loathe many people who cite the same roots as me.



Flagg
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11 Mar 2007, 3:55 am

skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
I can prove technology is good for humans with a simple observation:

THERE ARE STILL HUMANS

If technology was more evil then good humans would have been ended by it long ago.



you try telling this to a punk rawk anarchist and see where it gets you.


i miss my roots but at the same time i loathe many people who cite the same roots as me.


They're like Fanatic nutjobs for a religion, they don't care what you say.


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calandale
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11 Mar 2007, 3:57 am

Technology may well be growing at a faster rate than our societal mechanisms can handle. Plus, is mere survival all we wish? Personally, I would rather there be a lot less of us, and we be happier.



skafather84
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11 Mar 2007, 3:58 am

Flagg wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
I can prove technology is good for humans with a simple observation:

THERE ARE STILL HUMANS

If technology was more evil then good humans would have been ended by it long ago.



you try telling this to a punk rawk anarchist and see where it gets you.


i miss my roots but at the same time i loathe many people who cite the same roots as me.


They're like Fanatic nutjobs for a religion, they don't care what you say.



i know this but they approach it in a secular way which is harder to say that they're full of s**t....because the whole movement is mainly secular and so you can't say they're cultist whack-jobs.


what's funny is my recent frustration over this is because i think an article posted on my favorite punk website (punknews.org) is a biased article written by some ignorant little kid who is exaggerating the truth.


the article in question



Flagg
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11 Mar 2007, 4:00 am

calandale wrote:
Technology may well be growing at a faster rate than our societal mechanisms can handle. Plus, is mere survival all we wish? Personally, I would rather there be a lot less of us, and we be happier.


It's the other way around - society is too slow for technology. Your saying something is wrong with gaining a greater understanding of the universe.

And it's only going to come faster. Don't be surprised to hear about things like cloaking units and limb regeneration by 2070.


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Flagg
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11 Mar 2007, 4:01 am

skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
I can prove technology is good for humans with a simple observation:

THERE ARE STILL HUMANS

If technology was more evil then good humans would have been ended by it long ago.



you try telling this to a punk rawk anarchist and see where it gets you.


i miss my roots but at the same time i loathe many people who cite the same roots as me.


They're like Fanatic nutjobs for a religion, they don't care what you say.



i know this but they approach it in a secular way which is harder to say that they're full of s**t....because the whole movement is mainly secular and so you can't say they're cultist whack-jobs.


what's funny is my recent frustration over this is because i think an article posted on my favorite punk website (punknews.org) is a biased article written by some ignorant little kid who is exaggerating the truth.


the article in question


Ayn Rand has a cult.

Cult can mean a lot of things.


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skafather84
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11 Mar 2007, 4:07 am

Flagg wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
I can prove technology is good for humans with a simple observation:

THERE ARE STILL HUMANS

If technology was more evil then good humans would have been ended by it long ago.



you try telling this to a punk rawk anarchist and see where it gets you.


i miss my roots but at the same time i loathe many people who cite the same roots as me.


They're like Fanatic nutjobs for a religion, they don't care what you say.



i know this but they approach it in a secular way which is harder to say that they're full of s**t....because the whole movement is mainly secular and so you can't say they're cultist whack-jobs.


what's funny is my recent frustration over this is because i think an article posted on my favorite punk website (punknews.org) is a biased article written by some ignorant little kid who is exaggerating the truth.


the article in question


Ayn Rand has a cult.

Cult can mean a lot of things.



cult can mean many different things...but in general, it's a disparaging word used to describe groups that adhere to a certain set of beliefs religiously.

coming from new orleans, i'm used to hearing it used to describe "satanic" groups or other such organizations....but yeah...i get what you mean by saying cult can mean a lot of things....but i mean it as a disparaging way to refer to a concrete set of beliefs that refuse to change in the face of facts opposing their views.



Flagg
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11 Mar 2007, 4:08 am

skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Flagg wrote:
I can prove technology is good for humans with a simple observation:

THERE ARE STILL HUMANS

If technology was more evil then good humans would have been ended by it long ago.



you try telling this to a punk rawk anarchist and see where it gets you.


i miss my roots but at the same time i loathe many people who cite the same roots as me.


They're like Fanatic nutjobs for a religion, they don't care what you say.



i know this but they approach it in a secular way which is harder to say that they're full of s**t....because the whole movement is mainly secular and so you can't say they're cultist whack-jobs.


what's funny is my recent frustration over this is because i think an article posted on my favorite punk website (punknews.org) is a biased article written by some ignorant little kid who is exaggerating the truth.


the article in question


Ayn Rand has a cult.

Cult can mean a lot of things.



cult can mean many different things...but in general, it's a disparaging word used to describe groups that adhere to a certain set of beliefs religiously.

coming from new orleans, i'm used to hearing it used to describe "satanic" groups or other such organizations....but yeah...i get what you mean by saying cult can mean a lot of things....but i mean it as a disparaging way to refer to a concrete set of beliefs that refuse to change in the face of facts opposing their views.


Hence, most "punk" anarchists are cultists.


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skafather84
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11 Mar 2007, 4:15 am

yeah....they are...i realize that now.


i still think i fit into the idea of "punk" but i think i'm ahead of the curve which is why i'm rejected by a lot of punks.


when i was 16/17....was fine in the punk scene...but grew up...grew older.....i still hold many morals from the punk scene but have a different approach now.


it doesn't help that punk has been cheapened so much by marketing and bands like good charlotte and acts like avril lavigne.



calandale
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11 Mar 2007, 6:28 am

Flagg wrote:
It's the other way around - society is too slow for technology. Your saying something is wrong with gaining a greater understanding of the universe..


Technology and science are different beasts. The understanding is fine, the application is dangerous.

Flagg wrote:
And it's only going to come faster. Don't be surprised to hear about things like cloaking units and limb regeneration by 2070.


I'd be surprised to hear anything in 2070 (unless I'm actually immortal).



skafather84
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11 Mar 2007, 6:40 am

calandale wrote:
Flagg wrote:
It's the other way around - society is too slow for technology. Your saying something is wrong with gaining a greater understanding of the universe..


Technology and science are different beasts. The understanding is fine, the application is dangerous.

Flagg wrote:
And it's only going to come faster. Don't be surprised to hear about things like cloaking units and limb regeneration by 2070.


I'd be surprised to hear anything in 2070 (unless I'm actually immortal).



heh...great point...i'll be hitting my 90's by 2070....actually 2074 will be my 90th b-day.....but the point being...i get what you're saying about not being around for that date....but we still have a dire responsibility for the future.....the baby boomers....at least in america have left very little for the generations after and i do not wish the same fate for the generations after me.....



calandale
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11 Mar 2007, 8:06 am

You got a chance. I'd be well over 100 - and I smoke like a fiend. If I make it much longer, I'd be shocked.



Awesomelyglorious
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11 Mar 2007, 2:55 pm

Quote:
Technology may well be growing at a faster rate than our societal mechanisms can handle. Plus, is mere survival all we wish? Personally, I would rather there be a lot less of us, and we be happier.


There can be concern about technology out-pacing our ability to deal with it. Do you think that we can stop technology though? We have millions upon millions of people across the globe seeking it, including college faculty, businesses, all they way down to people who want or need the next technological innovation to improve their lives. Technological progress at this point is pretty much unstoppable, we can slow it down but only at a cost to our lives.

We do not wish mere survival, but killing off large parts of the population is not plausible in any manner. We must continue further if only for the sake of better lives for more people. The reason that we are not happy today has nothing to do with how bad things are but rather in how stupid people are. The average person today lives as a king would, he eats fine meals every day(even 10cent ramen is a good meal) and has luxuries such as air-conditioning which would have been inconceivable to a past generations. We are miserable for multiple reasons, but largely because we are not wired to be that happy and because we have more time to consider the meaningless and stupid. There was actually an audio file about how we get richer and richer but never feel any better. There is a somewhat long interview with an author named Gregg Easterbrook who is a senior editor for The New Republic and a fellow at the Brookings institute and economist Russ Roberts. It can be found here if anyone wants to listen to it. It is sort of interesting to hear.