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TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 2:26 pm

(This is more of a philosophical approach to the topic than a doctrinal one. I think that most of our ideas about Hell come from writers like Dante rather than the Bible itself.)

Would you want people to be tormented forever? Are you comfortable with that idea?

Some people are okay with the notion of nonbelievers being cast into eternal torment. I wouldn’t even want the worst people who ever lived to be tormented for eternity. Maybe just a day or two… :P

In all seriousness, the very idea of it makes me sick.



klanka
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18 Jul 2022, 2:30 pm

I have to agree, I don't think even the worst people deserve hell. It might not be what we think, even though the bible says it is as in your post.



IsabellaLinton
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18 Jul 2022, 2:33 pm

I think when evil people die, their conscience remains stuck forever.
It's a form of energy rather than a literal place with fire and brimstone.

I don't think I could "send" anyone there by my own will, and nor would I want to.


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TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 2:34 pm

klanka wrote:
I have to agree, I don't think even the worst people deserve hell. It might not be what we think, even though the bible says it is as in your post.


Some people think that the fiery pit and its niceties are allegorical. They focus on scriptures like Ecclesiastes 9:5:

“The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no more reward, and even the memory of them is lost.”



TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 2:38 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think when evil people die, their conscience remains stuck forever.
It's a form of energy rather than a literal place with fire and brimstone.

I don't think I could "send" anyone there by my own will, and nor would I want to.


That sounds reasonable. I just feel concerned when people are okay with the idea of eternal torment, especially over minor differences in doctrine. It seems akin to sociopathy to me. It probably has more to do with compartmentalizing, though…



funeralxempire
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18 Jul 2022, 2:41 pm

I need my god to be an insecure, narcissistic bully who's concept of free will is just a Hobson's choice between blind devotion and self-deprivation or eternal torture.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 2:44 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I need my god to be an insecure, narcissistic bully who's concept of free will is just a Hobson's choice between blind devotion and self-deprivation or eternal torture.


There’s nothing wrong with BDSM if that’s what you enjoy. :P



funeralxempire
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18 Jul 2022, 2:51 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
It seems akin to sociopathy to me. It probably has more to do with compartmentalizing, though…


I feel like the ability to easily compartmentalize these things becomes indistinguishable from how individuals with ASPD who are violent tend to see their use of violence. It's just a matter of the size of the compartments, so to speak.

Some examples of large boxes might be the commies, or sinners, or the compradores; a medium box might be anyone who's done x specific action, regardless of circumstances; a very small box might be anyone who bumps into me while I'm worked up. No matter how broad or how large a segment of the population is isolated and viewed as deserving of whatever consequence is imposed upon them no matter how disproportionate it might actually be.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


funeralxempire
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18 Jul 2022, 2:52 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I need my god to be an insecure, narcissistic bully who's concept of free will is just a Hobson's choice between blind devotion and self-deprivation or eternal torture.


There’s nothing wrong with BDSM if that’s what you enjoy. :P


Agreed, but we should maybe reconsider if some BDSM clubs deserve their current tax exemptions, or if instead that all BDSM clubs should be entitled to the same exemptions. :nerdy:


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 2:55 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I need my god to be an insecure, narcissistic bully who's concept of free will is just a Hobson's choice between blind devotion and self-deprivation or eternal torture.


There’s nothing wrong with BDSM if that’s what you enjoy. :P


Agreed, but we should maybe reconsider if some BDSM clubs deserve their current tax exemptions, or if instead that all BDSM clubs should be entitled to the same exemptions. :nerdy:


I say tax them all and use that money to open up and sponsor abortion clinics.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 18 Jul 2022, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 2:57 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
It seems akin to sociopathy to me. It probably has more to do with compartmentalizing, though…


I feel like the ability to easily compartmentalize these things becomes indistinguishable from how individuals with ASPD who are violent tend to see their use of violence. It's just a matter of the size of the compartments, so to speak.

Some examples of large boxes might be the commies, or sinners, or the compradores; a medium box might be anyone who's done x specific action, regardless of circumstances; a very small box might be anyone who bumps into me while I'm worked up. No matter how broad or how large a segment of the population is isolated and viewed as deserving of whatever consequence is imposed upon them no matter how disproportionate it might actually be.


Also, there are some staunch believers who genuinely regret that people will go to Hell although they try not to think about it (thought stopping) and others look forward to it. I’ve seen it in action, and it’s quite disturbing.



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18 Jul 2022, 3:10 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think when evil people die, their conscience remains stuck forever.
It's a form of energy rather than a literal place with fire and brimstone.

I don't think I could "send" anyone there by my own will, and nor would I want to.


That sounds reasonable. I just feel concerned when people are okay with the idea of eternal torment, especially over minor differences in doctrine. It seems akin to sociopathy to me. It probably has more to do with compartmentalizing, though…


I hear you.
I'm having the same reaction. It feels like a direct attack on my family and friends.


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TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 3:29 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think when evil people die, their conscience remains stuck forever.
It's a form of energy rather than a literal place with fire and brimstone.

I don't think I could "send" anyone there by my own will, and nor would I want to.


That sounds reasonable. I just feel concerned when people are okay with the idea of eternal torment, especially over minor differences in doctrine. It seems akin to sociopathy to me. It probably has more to do with compartmentalizing, though…


I hear you.
I'm having the same reaction. It feels like a direct attack on my family and friends.


Someone told me at the door once that I was going to Hell for having very minor doctrinal differences. He seemed to be looking forward to it. To be fair, Jehovah’s Witnesses are super annoying. I was very shy and didn’t say much, though.



IsabellaLinton
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18 Jul 2022, 3:35 pm

I'm sorry that happened.
I would have torn a strip off them, but I know many people would be too traumatised to speak up.
I don't answer the door for them.
In fact I don't really answer the door for anyone.
I don't believe in anyone violating my peace / my personal space unless I've invited them.


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18 Jul 2022, 3:38 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I'm sorry that happened.
I would have torn a strip off them, but I know many people would be too traumatised to speak up.
I don't answer the door for them.
In fact I don't really answer the door for anyone.
I don't believe in anyone violating my peace / my personal space unless I've invited them.


It wasn’t really the fact that he said it but that he seemed to be looking forward to it.

It’s akin to sociopathy.

Of course, my group viewed others similarly.

It’s spooky.



lostonearth35
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18 Jul 2022, 3:52 pm

It's hard to feel sympathy for rapists, murderers, corrupt politicians, dictators, and anti-vaxxers, but supposedly all they have to do to avoid hell is be very religious and ask for forgiveness. Sickening.