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https://youtu.be/zSGGnx2dT3k?feature=shared

Thanks MG, I'll try to give this a watch at some point.

The video isn't about Christian theology so much as supposed science - young Earth creationism, specifically.

Even when I was a Christian, I did not believe that the Earth was only 6,000 years old.

My specific Christian cult taught that Earth may have been around for millions of years (they didn't mention billions) but that humans were created 6,000 years ago as recorded in the account in Genesis which is utterly absurd in and of itself because of the substantial amount of evidence we have for human evolution and the existence of human fossils from much further back than 6,000 years. It's a problem when scientific evidence is disregarded in favor of propaganda. The issue is compounded when children are involved because it inhibits their education and, quite often, their future.

Many (perhaps most) Christians do not take the creation story in Genesis literally. Some Christians on here, for example, believe in evolution. I respect that. If people are taught to disregard evidence, they may be susceptible to believing other nonsense with more harmful consequences.

I started listening to the video, but had to turn it off for fear that my brains would melt out of my skull.
I stopped listening early on about why there would be death and suffering if the earth was more than six thousand years old (!). That has got to be about the dumbest argument I ever heard! Maybe the guy made more sense after I turned him off, but I seriously doubt it. What he seemed to be saying is, dying, and animals killing other animals to eat, is somehow sinful, rather than just the way the natural world works. So, I guess TRex and lions ate grass, huh?
Incidentally, I do think of myself as a Christian, but I'm hardly any sort of young earth creationist.

Obviously we can't be absolutely certain of the age of the world, because we could be dreaming that our chosen number was an absolute fact. There, I knocked a hole in both estimates - 6000 years and 4.5 billion years - with a single sentence. There's efficiency. Bonus conclusion: nobody knows anything at all. And I've done all that in a fraction of the time he spent. All I need now is an interviewer as sycophantic as his, and we're done.

Me, I'm backing the 4.5 billion figure. It's not perfect, but compared to 6000, based on what some spiritual authority figures unscientifically wrote a few thousand years ago, there's no competition. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Most Christians don't feel the need to invent fake science to justify their beliefs, they instead reconcile their beliefs with science.

Exactly.

Yeah I had a physics teacher in college who was also a JW

There are medical doctors who are practicing Christians.

Plenty of people blend a belief in Christianity with a respect to science being given simultaneously.

With JWs, biology is more of a problem than physics because they aren’t allowed to believe in human evolution. If they taught evolution from a factual standpoint and it was known, they would be disfellowshipped/shunned.

It’s pretty unusual for them to become teachers though because higher education is strongly discouraged.

They put Mum and I on their "Do not visit" list after some of their members almost left their church to become Christians instead. We kept having visits from more and more senior people over many years, and they started to question their beliefs... and we reached a point where I challenged them to pray as when the Holy Spirit is there and we pray, things happen. But they ran away scared of what may happen!

Jehovah’s Witnesses are a sect of Christianity like Mormons, Pentecostals, Baptists, etc.

Differences between some denominations gets rather arbitrary in my opinion, and yet, many claim to be the sole Truth.

Really...maybe I'm mistaken then. I could have swore he was JW. Maybe he was some other denomination.

The problem is that JW's (And Mormons) are a very different religion compared to the various Christian denominations.

To define a group as being Christians, they have to agree to these key fundamental docterines which JW's don't (I have met many and they are nice people. My Aunt was one and she sentthem up to evangelize us over many years). But their beliefs are fundamentally different. The JW's beliefs of thr Watchtower organisation have also changed quite a bit over the years as they continually correct errors in their Bibles because they origionally re-wrote their Bibles to make sense to them... But then by changing bits, they had to change other bits, and then other bits and so it went on in an ever correcting process.

But some of the main reasons why they can't be classed as Christians are that they do not believe that Jesus Christ is part of the triune God. They view Jesus as an angel... Their Bible teaching changes the parts that show Jesus as God. (Jesus was known as the "Word" before He came down to earth to become the ultimate sacrifice to take away our sins and all we have to do is repent and believe! Salvation is a free gift. No strings attached!
They do not accept this because they don't put Christ in the same place. By viewing Christ as a created being (They view Him as an angel who is a brother to luicefer.... Dualistic teaching often found in other non-Chridtian faiths), they have aproblem with the concept of salvation. They (Like many non Christian based religions) replace salvation with works. (Nothing wrong with doing good, but is nothing to do with salvation as salvwtion is based on believing). They have to do so many visits to evangelize and other visits to help others to earn their way into Heaven. This is nothing to do with Christian teaching, as Christians do it because they don't want people ending up in Hell.
(Very different concept to JW's teachings because JW's don't believe in Hell, so they have no need for Crist based salvation. Which is also why they don't celebrate Christmas. (Regardless of the date Christmas actually is! (The date Christ was born).

Very different religion. The confusion comes when JW's (And Mormons do this as well), they say they are Christians to use it as an evangelistic tool. They are taught how to use Christian Bibles to win others to their faith, and are taught to agree with the person pretending they believe what the other person believes to lure them into their church. Then gradually one either becomes indoctrinated or one stands out as not agreeing to their beliefs (If one knows the Chrietian Bible. They rely on most peop!e not knkwing the Bible. If one does not agree, they will not allow other members to talk to the person and not allow the person to speak in their church or to other members outside it. As a young child I was not allowed to speak even to my aunty, and she only then spoke properly to me when we got into her car, as the church leader realized I questioned certain aspects of their faith. (I was 7 years old and I was not a Christian in those days as I had not accepted Jesus Christ into my heart, so I did not hear from God or communicate with Him (Another thing JW's don't do by Christians do with the exception of those who who have not had the born again experience).

The other main aspect that very much differs (There are actually many more but not so big as this one) is that JW's don't believe in the Holy Spirit as a person. Very different from Christianity that very much believes the Holy Spirit is a person. Jesus Himself said he will leave the "Comforter" which is the Holy Spirit, here on this earth when He left the earth and was transcended up into Heaven.

JW's do believe in Heaven but their beliefs are very different to Christian beliefs. JW's belief on replacement theology with their 144,000 is all wrong. The Bible very clearly states that the 144,000 are from the 12 tribes, each having 12,000 each who have not defiled themselves. The JW's version is nothing like that. They are not even Jews in their version which makes no sense to the rest of the scriptures and the context as an overall picture!

I wasn’t saying that he wasn’t one. I just meant that it is unusual.

^^ Jehovah’s Witnesses are Christians. If people consider themselves Christians, they are Christians. I’m saying this as someone who was one. You are mistaken about a lot of their beliefs by the way, but I’m not in the mood to get into the nitty gritty about it because I believe that all religions were created by men and so it ultimately doesn’t matter. They do not believe that Jesus was an angel. They believe that he was the son of God. Yes, they have some strange beliefs, but they are still Christians. Christians do disagree on many things, though, which is why there are so many denominations out there.

A Christian is someone who “professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christian

Primarily, it comes down to personal identity. If a person identifies as being gay, they are gay. If a person identifies as Christian, like JWs do, they are Christian.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 05 Nov 2023, 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.