Devil, Satanism and Absolution

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Nothing compared to what a few atheists did in the last century. (Hint: Che Guevara, Fidel Castro, Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin, Vladimir Lenin, Adolph Hitler, Slobodan Milosevic, Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceausescu).

Edit: Saddam Hussein might have been an atheist as well. Mao alone killed 80 million people, that's more than all the world religions combined.

Nothing compared to what a few atheists did in the last century. (Hint: Che Guevara, Fidel Castro, Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin, Vladimir Lenin, Adolph Hitler, Slobodan Milosevic, Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceausescu).

Edit: Saddam Hussein might have been an atheist as well. Mao alone killed 80 million people, that's more than all the world religions combined.

Nothing compared to what a few atheists did in the last century. (Hint: Che Guevara, Fidel Castro, Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin, Vladimir Lenin, Adolph Hitler, Slobodan Milosevic, Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceausescu).

Edit: Saddam Hussein might have been an atheist as well. Mao alone killed 80 million people, that's more than all the world religions combined.

They weren't hypocrites.

You can't include Hitler here, he was rased a Catholic and the Vatican signed a treaty with him a couple of weeks after he was elected. There was also official help from the Vatican in carying out Nazi jewish policy.

In reguards to Stalin, although he was most likely an atheist, the country he took over had been indoctrinated in the Russian orthodox chorch. The reason that is important, is that the head of the church was the Tzar. Not only was he the head of the church, but he was considered a living saint who had a direct connection with god. Now you take this people who consider their leader to be divine, and you have a credulous people who are prepared to worship thier leader and follow him no matter what.

Two last points. As far as the death toll goes, no theocracy has had the chance to get it's hands on modern weapons to kill that many people. The crusades killed a million people, but that was done the old fasioned way. If they all had AK-47's the bloodbath would've been 100 times as great. Second, none of the people you mentioned killed in the name of atheism. They did it for earthly power and in the name of an "ism". Communism could be described as a secular religion.

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together..."

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity."

"Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew."

"The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity..."

"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity..."

"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse..."

"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little..."

"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State."

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer..."

"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, fa***ts? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea."

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery..."

"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics."

"Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself..."

"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity."

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."

They weren't? Both the communists and the nazis supposedly wanted to remove class differences, but in reality it was just a charade to controll the people.

Nothing compared to what a few atheists did in the last century.

Well, atheists aren't going around saying "For God so loved the world", and "Thou shalt not kill", are they? But touche all the same. They are all hypocrites.

Christianity has had a much stronger effect on the world than those "few" atheists have had or are likely to ever have. And your 80 million is a blown up guesstimate. He is attributed with as little as 400,000 deaths and as many as 100 million.

I wonder how many deaths we can pin on Bush when his reign is done. Just for fun. How many died in Katrina thanks to his governments policies and slow reaction? How many of starvation? How many of disease? Of old age? How many in the Iraq war? How many have died in other countries indirectly thanks to his policies? Just how far should we balloon the count up to? I'm sure we could get an exorbitantly large amount to make him look every bit as bad as we wanted to, if that were our aim. Ah well, I ramble.

Back to the topic.


When it comes to death counts, maybe. But when it comes to prejudice and oppression stretching over the years into modernity, bah! Christians have atheists so beat it's not even close.

A king is better than a dictator. A king worships a higher power; a dictator makes the people worship him.

They weren't hypocrites.

You can't include Hitler here, he was rased a Catholic and the Vatican signed a treaty with him a couple of weeks after he was elected. There was also official help from the Vatican in carying out Nazi jewish policy.

'Nazi' Pope helped Jews flee Holocaust
By Malcolm Moore in Rome
telegraph.co.uk
Last Updated: 1:51am BST 31/03/2007

Pius XII, the wartime pontiff often condemned as "Hitler's Pope", was actually considered an enemy by the Third Reich, according to newly discovered documents.

Several letters and memos unearthed at a depot used by the Stasi, the East-German secret police, show that Nazi spies within the Vatican were concerned at Pius's efforts to help displaced Poles and Jews.

In one, the head of Berlin's police force tells Joachim von Ribbentropp, the Third Reich's foreign minister, that the Catholic Church was providing assistance to Jews "both in terms of people and financially".

A report from a spy at work in the Vatican states: "Our source was told to his face by Father Robert Leibner [one of Pius's secretaries] that the greatest hope of the Church is that the Nazi system would be obliterated by the war."

La Repubblica, the newspaper that discovered the papers, said they were sent to the heads of the Stasi, after the Second World War.

The revelations they contain will help to clear the name of Pius XII, Eugenio Pacelli, who has long been criticised for turning a blind eye to the Holocaust. During the war, the British Foreign Office even described him as the "greatest moral coward of our age".

In 1999, John Cornwell's Hitler's Pope suggested that Pius XII, who had been the papal envoy to Germany before the war, was sympathetic to the Nazis.

In addition, an international Catholic-Jewish historical commission, set up by the Vatican, said it was clear that Pius knew of widespread anti-Jewish persecution. However, the commission was forced to disband before it finished its work, and one member said it had run up "against a brick wall" from the Holy See.

In his defence, the Pope always maintained he did not speak out further against the Nazis for fear of putting more people in danger.

Over the years more documents have come to light as the Vatican has opened its secret archives to scholars in an attempt to clear what it sees as a communist-funded smear on Pius's name.

Giovanni Sale, the author of Hitler, The Holy See and the Jews, said Moscow had deliberately funded operations to discredit the Vatican after the war. "I have said for 10 years that the Church fought the Nazis on all fronts," he added.

If he'd been raised Catholic, become an atheist and then invented a cure for cancer instead, would you still count him as a Catholic? ^_~

As for the Nazi/Vatican alliance claim...



"Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth."
-Albert Einstein, Time Magazine, 1940

“When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the Pope was raised for the victims.” -Golda Meir

"In a manner never known before the Pope has repudiated the National Socialist New European Order. His radio allocution was a masterpiece of clerical falsification of the National Socialist Weltan schauung. It is true, the Pope does not refer to the National Socialists in Germany by name, but his speech is one long attack on everything we stand for.... God, he says, regards all peoples and races as worthy of the same consideration. Here he is clearly speaking on behalf-of the Jews.... That this speech is directed exclusively against the New Order in Europe as seen in National Socialism is clear in the papal statement that mankind owes a debt to "all who during the war have lost their Fatherland and who, although personally blame less have, simply on account of their nationality and origin, been killed or reduced to utter destitution." Here he is virtually accusing the German people of injustice towards the Jews, and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals."
-Nazi Reich Central Security Office, 1943

The Church tried to be on both sides to guarantee they were on the winning side. The Papacy playing politics as usuall.

They don't lower their ideals to suit what's easiest to do.

Are you joking, being sarcastic, or deadly serious?

I'm having trouble breaking this sentence down, do expand and clarify.

The following is just some banter, do ignore-
An ideal: Peace on earth.
Easiest way to get peace on earth with uncooperative people: Kill them.
Most difficult way to get peace on earth: Tolerate others.
What do hypocrites do: Spout off peace on earth while creating chaos by oppressing and killing others.
What happens to their ideal: It gets flushed down the commode.
Conclusion: Hypocrites suck.
/banter