Zoroasterianism and Bahai faiths

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Anyone know the details on these faiths?

Yes. I have attended Bahai meetings and know a bit about it. What are your questions?

I was wondering how they differed from, say, Christianity or Islam.

It is an offshoot of Shia Islam (just like Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism) - which is to say that it is rather different. It is a universal religion (like Christianity and Islam, unlike Judaism). It's followers believe that Bahaullah was the most recent major prophet of God, and that his teachings supercede and over-rule the teachings of Mohammed (which is one reason the Shiites in Iran have persecuted them - they see it as blasphemy). The focus of the religion is on the unity of mankind - the Bahais believe that the world is going through a transformation as technology changes, and that God will usher in a transformation to a global society (which scares the bejeezus out of the rapture Christians, who have denounced it as Satan's attempt to take over the world). Bahais recognize the divinity of all major world religions, but believe that their teachings are the freshest, most relevant to the world today.

I've tiptoed through the Bahai faith when I was searching for alternative spiritual options. What attracted me was the literal egalitarianism, the encouragement of scientific progress, globalized optimism, and it's acceptance of all major religions as initial stepping stones towards unity. I've read a little of the litterature proclaimed to be written by Bahaullah himself and it's quite beautiful and inspiring, very poetic.

However, I have a reflexive distrust of anything organized under a religious banner and I found myself losing my casual interest in the Bahai faith. The whole "Administration" aspect of the Bahai faith worried me and sounded like a bureaucracy. It's stance on homosexuality and mental illness was rather vague and elusive and that also made wary. I would hope a religion as liberal-minded as the Bahai faith would be obvious in its acceptance in all types of souls who want to believe.

Who knows, maybe I'll "rediscover" the Bahai faith or find myself succumbing to another religious banner. Right now I'm looking to be my own shephard instead of being someone else's sheep.

It seems I haven't really answered your question, Tim. I just went off in a soliloquy. Sorry heh

Your right - they are deliberately rather quiet on some issues (alcohol, gays, etc) because they don't want to scare people off and assume that people are more likely to accept that after being in the group for a while. There is an orthodoxy there. They talk about all religions being divine, and the idea that someone who never heard of Bahaullah can be a Bahai if their heart is turned towards God. But the more one gets into the religion, the more they are told that there is one particular way of doing things. There is also a bit too much groupspeak for me. But the Bahais that I have met have always been filled with joy and love for all.

Hi Tim,

It just so happens I'm a specialist in both Zoroastrianism and the Baha'i Faith. Both of these religions were born in Iran and I suppose you could say that they are a part of the same family of religion as Judaism, Christianty and Islam. Both believe in the Oneness of God and that God reveals Himself in history through prophets. Zoroastrianism is the oldest of prophetic religions while the Baha'i Faith is the youngest.

Zoroastrianism was the first religion to talk about God vs. the devil, paradise and hell, the Resurrection of the Dead and the Judgement Day, angels and demons. Judaism borrowed these ideas from Zoroastrianism during the Inter-Testamental period and from there they came to influence Christianity and Islam. There are only a few hundred thousand Zoroastrian left in the world today, mostly in India and Iran.

The Bahá'í Faith teaches that all religions ultimately come from God and that Bahá’u’lláh, the founder of the Baha'i Faith, is the Promised One of all religions and it is His purpose to bring these religions together. The social teachings of the Baha'i Faith is quite progressive stressings things like the elimination of prejudice and the equality of men and women. But as someone observed, morally speaking they are rathre conservative. For instance they insist that sex is appropriate only between a man and a woman who are married to one another. So that does exclude homosexual behavior. They also do not drink alcohol or take drugs for recreational purposes.

Let me know if you have any further questions about either of these religions.

Professing religion is not the same as being a sheep! Atheists make for very good sheep, as well. Anyone who continually advertizes how nonconformist they are is just masking their profound fear & insecuriy.

I would no more want to be my own shepherd than I would want to be my own dentist.

I wrote the draft article on Zoroastrianism at citizendium. http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

There's also an interesting draft article on the Baha'i faith : http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Baha%27i_Religion

Obviously. Pastors/preachers/priests/whathaveyou profess religion and they are the shepherds. So what?



So we should all pay a man/men tax-free tithes to lead us in our spirituality? Puh-lease. Atheists tend to have one less shepherd they cow to and blindly follow.



Uh-huh, yeah, sure, whatever. Believe what you must to ease your soul.



Dentists come with proven credentials. Religious shepherds are taken on faith and tend to prove quite often unfit to the task. I've met very few religious shepherds that are actually wise, many of them give horrible advice that ruin people and families. When it comes to your spiritual wellbeing, you can really only count on you.

So stuff it.

I think the Baha'i faith is well worth watching as it is right now in its infancy. I'm very impressed with some of its teachings, particularly the equality of men and women, considering when and where its founder Baha'u'llah lived. Not something you would expect coming out of 19th century Iran. But then I don't know much about the political and spiritual climate of Iran back then, whether it was like today's Iran under the ayatollahs or different.

What will be interesting is if the Baha'is ever come to political power in any country. My understanding of the faith is that it currently does not encourage its members to get involved in politics (it's a more behind-the-scenes type religion at this point); but I believe that the same thing could have been said of Christianity in its earliest years as well. However, if the Baha'i faith does continue to grow as it has been, sooner or later it will wind up being involved politically (perhaps by the conversion or election of a head of state, a la Constantine), and then it will face its greatest test. As Lord Acton once said, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." It didn't take long for Christianity to go from a persecuted to a persecuting sect; and this is my biggest fear for the Baha'is. Especially because a world government is one of the things they would like to see. (At least they are open about it--unlike Christianity, which denies that this is its goal yet seeks to convert everyone on earth).

Is nominalist around? You could try PM'ing him with your questions, I believe he is Baha'i and also rather expert on many religions. Zoroastrianism, from what I know, originated in Persia, I believe in about the 5th century BC. It's monotheistic, believes in a great struggle between good and evil. Beyond that I don't know much about it. Baha'i is a pretty inclusive and tolerant religion, claiming that all revelation is from God and all religions can be unified and harmonized. They seem to me not to have to much problem with people of other faiths, and have less of a tendency towards fanaticism than some other religions.

I think that Zoroastrianism had a profound influence on Christianity. For example, the Wise Men from the East (i.e., Zoroastrian Persia) could be interpreted as signifying that they recognized Jesus as the saviour of their religion. (Not that Zoroastrians automatically became Christians, but they had entertained similar ideas of a coming saviour).

Yup, Zoroastrianism has had a huge influence on Judaism, Christianity and Islam before these newer religions where fully formed. It also has some links with Hinduism, which was formed by the same Indo-Aryan group of people.
It's recorded history only goes back to the 5th century BCE, but there is plenty of evidence to put it as far back as the 10th/9th. The origin of Zoroastrianism lies in around 3000BCE when the Indo-Aryan people moved from Northern India/Southern Russia in to Persia.
Much of Zoroastrianism was born from the Cult of Mithras, a god of bull-worship and sacrifice. Mithras is also the old Persian word for "contract". The contract, or covenant with god would later become an important Jewish and christian idea. Mithras is also the first example of a god that stands for an abstract idea (the justice of a contract) as opposed to the more human gods on Mount Olympus.
It is also the first religion to talk about the soul (urvany).
The founder of the religion was Zarathustra. He was born in Tehran or Kazakhstan and preached to the Northwest of Kabul where he converted the local ruler and Zoroastrianism became the official religion. He spoke of a "one true god" which we are free to follow or abandon. This was another new idea that Judaism took. The choice of following god or not also gave rise to the idea of judgement after death, heaven and hell.
Zarathustra referred to him self as the "savior" which helped shape ideas about the soul and life after death and laid the seeds for the idea of Messiah.

For a long time Judaism was a religion of bull worship with more than one god. It was not until 539BCE that the Iseralites came into contact with Zoroastrianism and formed their ideas of a single god.

Interesting thread here. I had a 10th grade English teacher who was Bahai and she had some stories about Missionary work in Peru and said that Seals & Croft were Bahai. She was a real cool teacher. I didn't know this background that has been mentioned here. Being on a forum full of geeks has definite advantages.

What happened in 539? Is that when Moses destroyed the "graven image" of the calf?