disappointing court ruling in Germany.

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BERLIN: A German court on Tuesday convicted three alleged members of the terrorist organization Ansar al-Islam of plotting to kill the Iraqi prime minister on a visit to Berlin in 2004.

A state court in Stuttgart sentenced the three to prison sentences ranging from 7½ years to 10 years for conspiring to murder Ayad Allawi, who was prime minister at the time, and for membership in the radical Islamist terrorist organization, which has been linked to Al Qaeda.

Two years after the trial began, the verdict was hailed by terrorism...

full story here:http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/15/europe/germany.php



I really don't agree with the court here, why not consider probation in a case like this? These men may have planed to kill the prime minister, sure, but the fact is,it never happened.

I don't think they deserve to serve this much prison time, especially considering that they haven't actually done any psychological or physical damage to another human being. It would be a totally different story if they actually killed anyone, but that is not what happened here.

Furthermore, according to the story they get punished simply for being members of an organization. This I find inappropriate as well.
In my opinion, you should never be punished just for being a member in an organization.

So when I read this article I said to myself, "why not probation? Say, 3 years of probation in Germany, including being forced to report or meet with a probation officer every odd week."

10 years is a long time, and we don't know what condition these men will be subjected to, will these people be subjected to a maximum security prison, where they would be locked-up for 23 hours a day? That, in my opinion, is not humane treatment. In fact, it should be against human rights to subject anyone to 23 hour a day confinement. Sadly, its a common practise.

I would go for probation in this case any day of the week.

10 years isn't that long for something that large.

if it had been in america, they could have easily gotten a lot more and a lot worse.

sadly, I think you are correct.

lets just hope they serve their time and get out alive. Thats all we can hope for, we should hope for the best when it comes to our fellow human beings.

i agree. it's why i'm so strong in pointing out the bias towards israel in the media and in how america handles the whole middle east...because the other countries have human beings too...they're not all just terrorist animals. in fact, most aren't. the support behind it is more political than it is a murder-lust.

in america, those people would have most likely been extradited to some third world country to be tortured and locked up indefinitely. it's appalling.

Are we all sympathetic towards these guys who tried to kill a head of state?

they didn't get to the point of trying. they're being tried up on plotting to do it.


anyways, whatever happened to hate the sin love the sinner? does that not apply to muslims?

Ha! Very funny. In the Muslim world you can get your hand cut off for stealing bread, regardless of actual guilt or innocence. Muslims are not bleeding hearts for anyone.

they still follow their holy texts. if christians followed the letter of the bible (esp. the old testament), there'd be a lot more of the same in jewish and christian faiths.

and that's only in such countries where fundamentalism is king like iran or saudi arabia. the muslims here don't cut off hands, methinks.

you're making a very broad statement against muslims there and it's more reflective of the third world conditions and culture more than it is a reflection of the religion or even the people themselves.

So if I try to kill someone but it fails, I am innocent?? I think trying such a thing is bad enough and that 7 years in jail is not such a harsh sentence. And especially because of ties with terrorist networks, which are facts that could just as well have made the sentence worse...

So I disagree this sentence is too harsh. At the same time I am a proud European that we don't just use very harsh sentences like in the US where the death penalty can be applied to terrorists. I know terrorism is harsh, but I am against capital punishment in every single case, and I am proud here in Europe we have abolished that completely even for crimes as harsh as murder and terrorist attacks.

I think a sentence of 10 to 15 years would have been ideal here in this case.

The dead cannot sympathize.

Well these convicted terrorists clearly don't believe in it as they were plotting to murder the sinner, not love him. I suppose that's 1 step better than plotting to murder innocent bystander sinners.

I'm afraid you'll just have to learn to love the judge who made this ruling, whilst ignoring his (alleged) sins.

if you'll note, i'm not exactly protesting his sentencing and said the maximum of years listed isn't that bad.

i'm just trying to block off you guys' blood lust for muslims.

Don't worry, the Elders of Zion will handle that.

skafather84, glad you said it.

I am not Muslim but I adore the Middle East and its culture, and thus have a strong interest in Islam and several muslim friends. I have a lot of respect for this religion (more than for the majority of religions actually) and I am deeply embarrassed of my roots when I realise Europe is becoming islamophobic. It fills me with disgust. I personally am critical to certain aspects of Sharia but in general have a big respect for Islam. The islamophobia in Europe fills me with shame.

i'm a freakin' atheist and i'm the one standing up for them.


it's the same here...except it's also mexicans...and blacks. damned shame that people can't see beyond such s**t.

Lets just clarify something. These men were Muslims, were they not? They were planning to assassinate a head of state, for reasons intrinsically linked to their beliefs, were they not? They were, in fact, members of a known terrorist group? An Islamic militant group to be precise, whose name literally means "Supporters Of Islam". A group which has barred women from education and employment, confiscated musical instruments and banned music, banned satellite receivers and televisions, and threatened amputation, flogging, and stoning in areas it controlled in Iraq. A group that has reputedly killed at least 800 people in various terrorist attacks... all in the name of Islam.

A phobia is "a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it."

Regardless of whether Islam overall is mostly harmless to those who are not part of it, the fact remains that there are people killing in its name. I see nothing irrational in being afraid of people who kill other people. I see nothing irrational in wishing to imprison those who are hell-bent on slaughter.

As for those who moan the sentence is too big or its not fair when they didnt actually do anything..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7521024.stm

These f*****s never managed to actually bomb a shopping centre or nightclub.. so we should totally let them out to wander the streets. That would be AWESOMELY SAFE....

Thats like cutting Jack The Ripper some slack because he didnt kill ALL the prostitutes. I rather like the idea of law enforcement actually PREVENTING a crime, instead of just tidying up afterwards.