Doesn't God use magic?

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This question applies to the common concept of the Christian God, and Jesus. What is the difference between witchcraft and a miracle? How come some magic is 'bad' and whenever God uses magic, it's good? I'll probably edit this to clarify my question later.

Yes, his magic is held within the triforce.

I lol'ed. Zelda is made of win.

Seriously though, this is a debate I end up in with some Christians I know. They say magic is a bad thing, but then why are miracles good? Jesus pulls all sorts of magic feats. If someone other than Jesus does it though, it's blasphemy. I don't get it.

I haven't looked over the applicable parts of the Bible, but from what I can remember off the top of my head, what gets banned are other religions' rituals. Stuff that would fall afoul of the "no other gods before me" clause.

Most Christians would think you meant something along the lines of placating spirits other than God. They would probably assume that either a) it doesn't work (agreeing, for once, with skeptical atheists) or b) it works, but by placating to demons -- evil spirits. If you talk about spiritual power in general as magic (like in RPGs), then they will probably misunderstand you, and think you mean something else.

They wouldn't call what Jesus does magic.

I understand the concept of magic as of, supernatural events.
Witchcraft and miracles would deferenciate depending on the religion and wether it goes along or contradicts the dogma of said religion.

Miracle - supernatural event, like healing or walking on water, caused by God, through faith, praying or men doing those with God's permission.

Witchcraft - supernatural events, like miracles, but not created by God, but with the help of demons or the devil to deceive and to take people's mind off the "truth", most likely to do harm to others, possibly it has been related to paganism and politheism or at least accusations of it.

Well, probably that would be the basic of it, not really answering the question, but depending on the religion the concept would vary I suppose.

Both are related to superstition.

Hi Malsane. I think it goes something like this.

The early christians did not like women, women were in a position of power and respect cos the healers were generally women.
Therefore healing people is magic and therefore witchcraft = burn the witches.
Claim any cures or positive natural events as an act of god and therefore a miracle.
Anything weird or coincidental = witchcraft = burn someone
If you cant find someone to blame for a bad occurance blame everyone for upsetting god



Yes I know I am being flippant and making large generalisations, but peel away the layers and I reckon I am not to far off the mark.

You don't milk the cow from the farm next door.

Eh

Hi Dent.

I'm also confused about the cow quip.

So, magic and miracles are basically the same, but one is using God's power, and the other is using something other than God? That seems lame.

Ancalagon:
Why aren't Jesus' miracles magic? What is the difference?

The only difference I have been able to see from your posts, and talking with others in person, is the source is different. So is God just saying we can't do anything ourselves, and should pray that he feels like working magic for us?

You're thinking that what you are doing is your own work, but it is actually work being performed for another. The idea that you are your own person and that all your actions and joys are done in order to satisfy your own need is flawed. Once you realize that God alone is the one that performs and gives pleasure there is no lost sense of work.

Jesus is assumed to be God by the majority of Christians. God is above the charlatan actions of performing trickery. Whereas magicians make it appear as if the coin they once had in their hand disappeared, how can the same thing be attributed to God if he would make the sun disappear?

Hypothetically, with the idea of a divine creator there is technically no such thing as a 'miracle', as the supernatural are just consistent facets of the natural that are just as constant as any of the scientific laws we know - just far less frequently observed and so far not scientifically tested or verified. The idea is if God created everything and controls everything, everything we think of as stable and scientifically testable reality is nothing more than an experience-based construct.

Throughout the bible, miracles were delivered more secondarily to ease suffering but really, primarily, to show that there was a deeper layer beneath what people could literally see, touch, taste, smell, etc. - ie. a whole other aspect of tangible reality that people just weren't coming in touch with as things were. In that sense, healers and miracle workers by the nature or what they're doing are in essence trying to show other people some deeper truth that they're tapping into (I would not narrow it down to one religion, as I don't know whether or not there are proven Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, or Pagan faith-healers and I'd rather not sit here and guess at whether or not they exist though I'd be interested to find out).

Hi all. Ok Oscuria I think I get what your saying, but I dont think it answers Malsane's question. Have I understood you correctly that if something miraculous happens even if you think you performed it you actually havent because it was performed by god. If it didnt really happen it was just trickery. If that is the case why were witches persecuted, because by your theory if it really happened it was down to God and if it did not, well it didnt so then why persecute. Also why then do religious people differentiate between miracles and witchcraft.

My understanding was witchcraft is, in religious circles, using the power of the devil.

More imortantly I might just be being dense The Cow thing

I've never seen magic. It was a great disappointment to me as a child to find out there was no magic. I'm not sure magic exists, maybe it used to, but not now - give me an example of magic.

Witchcraft, magic, etc. are things I don't truly believe in. Neither am I going to waste my time joining a prayer group to heal my wounds when the hospital would do a better job at helping me. Yes, I believe God is not limited in action. He certainly did not limit my capability of discernment.


About persecution of Witches, I've always liked this story:



My mom who firmly believes in magic, curses, witchcraft and demons I constantly remind her "Who has power over God?" The only one capable of doing anything of the sort is God. I am in no time going to bow down before Sai Baba for his golden lingam tricks.

I dunno. An Act of God is not considered to be "magic," in the popular sense of the word. Miracles are acts of God, but I hesitate to call them magic. I don't know if it's the same thing. The magic supposedly performed by pagans does not have God as its source. So what can you call that other than witchcraft?