Biblical Inspiration: IRRELEVANT?

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This was originally posted on the page: The Bible; Divinely Inspired? where it was rightly ignored, because that page was for theism vs. atheism discussion – before it mutated to science vs. philosophy. This post assumes the existence of a God. It is not the place to argue theism vs. atheism.

If there is a God to whom humans are accountable, then maybe the Bible is inspired by that God. Assuming the NT, but not Apocrypha, are included in the Bible, here is a rough outline of possibilities:

1. God is an arbitrary tyrant. Believe in Jesus, and you’re rewarded forever. Disbelieve in Jesus, and you’re tormented forever.
2. Any number of possible intermediate steps between 1 & 3.
3. God is just and sensible. He will reward or punish according to what is deserved. He communicates to people as much as they can handle at the time of communication. When people evolve enough to be ready for more communication, He communicates again. He may communicate different but non-conflicting things to people in different cultures. He also allows people to run wild with His communications, and to make up false religions.
4. Any number of possible intermediate steps between 3 & 5.
5. God is just and sensible. He will reward or punish according to what is deserved. He never communicates. He lets people figure things out by themselves.
6. Any number of possible intermediate steps between 5 & 7.
7. God is an arbitrary tyrant. He never communicates. Kiss his ass and you may be rewarded. Otherwise we’re all screwed.

I propose that it doesn’t matter if the Bible is inspired. It matters if an assumed God to whom humans are accountable is just and sensible.

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Last edited by claire-333 on 24 Jan 2009, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I believe that, among dues-paying Christians, the standard line is that God is, by definition, Just and Sensible, even if he is an arbitrary tyrant. But, you mustn't think him an arbitrary tyrant, lest ye be damned to Hell. Just keep repeating, "Just and sensible. Just and sensible." And you might squeek into Heaven. But, don't doubt that you will go to Heaven. Otherwise, you might not. And, don't be overconfident, either.

And, yes, the Bible is, by definition, Divinely Inspired.

I feel that God is too whole and compleet to be understood by man any more than a preschooler understands bills.

I don't worry about it, because I believe heaven is a reality that already fills our hearts, and will become all existence, (you become an entity of feeling) upon death , provided you don't destroy heaven within yourself.

eight hundred yeas ago I would have been hung for writing this. (The hangman was doing gods will apparently)

Generally speaking, I'd agree.

Assuming there is a god to whom people are accountable, before asking if the Christian bible is divinely inspired:

- Is that god the god of Christianity, or Quetzalcoatl, or some other religion's definition of one-true-god?
(I.e.; perhaps the Christian bible is no more divinely inspired than a mother goose tale while the texts of the Aztecs are what we should all be looking at. How do we tell? What is our standard of measure?)

- Is there no difference? Does this assumed god accept all religions (or at least, more than one) as valid paths to worship him/her/it/them?
(In which case, could they all be divinely inspired?)

- Is this assumed god all-knowing?
(If so, than he/she/it/they apparently do not want us to know or care if we know which if any texts are divinely inspired)

- Is this assumed god all-powerful?
(Same as above - has the ability to show us which texts are 'correct' but chooses not to)

- Is this assumed god a perfect being or does he/she/it/they make mistakes?
(If perfect, same as above; would have made it more clear if he/she/it/they want us to know which texts to follow)

- Does this assumed god intervene in human affairs or just sit back and watch?
(Same as above - chooses not to tell us which if any are inspired)

And in either case; if all-knowing/all-powerful, then this god is surely not a moral one by most standards of morality. Would you stand on a dock, holding a life-ring, watching a man drown, and not toss him the ring? Most of us would consider that immoral. An all-knowing, all-powerful god is doing just that. In which case, it does not matter if the bible or any other text is divinely inspired. He/she/it/they clearly do not care enough about us to care whether or not we obtain salvation (or drown in a lake for that matter).

This sounds cheesy but i have to:

The God that I understand a little, has answered my greatest questions at appropriate times. The timing and way of the message, has been beautiful and awe inspiring. Also the message has been absolutely the opposite of what I felt was what I needed.) in the end I am here.
....So I live understanding that messages may already be all around us. We just need to want to know,
Gods will is only evident to those who give him their faith. He is trying to show us all what we need to see, we are looking right at the messages, but we think the messages are something else. (Coincidence, just life, etc.)

Either way to each their own. Life goes on.

I agree. And though I am betting on a just (moral) God, I see no reason to believe that a God exists who is all-knowing or all-powerful, but that's an irrelevant side issue in this context. The important issue is his morality (or justice). We would agree that, judging from this world, its creator, if personal, appears to be immoral, unconcerned, and I would go further to include the term, evil. The only way this God could be moral is if there is an afterlife with appropriate rewards & punishments for good vs. bad behavior. And though I agree that both afterlife and a just God appear improbable, I choose to bet on those possibilities, because I have found that all the alternatives end in nihilism.

sounds like God has a biopolar disorder.

Without evil, good does not exist. If God(s) made a unipolar existence, what do you think that world would consist of? Well, the earth might have been flat or even worse, mindlessly predetermined. People forget that the idea of good/evil was conceptualized by humans. One might consider this as the first type of distinction for the survival of a species. If humans wouldn't have invented this concept, do you really think that we would exist at all? Just imagine the first humans encountering a predatory species and not being able to comprehend that this species are evil and they will be slaughtered. They would lack the understandings that would help them identify danger and prevent future occurrences. This vital concept is why humans are thriving. We have exceptional abilities to identify the bad and we try to eliminate them in order to progress. And do you know what vessel helped maintain and nurture this concept up to the modern times? Religion.

So this evil God of yours, might be interpreted as a "Just God" for others.

Which is why I try to include qualifiers such as "Immoral by most standards."

Someone out there can and would surely argue that there is nothing immoral about watching a drowning man drown without tossing him a life ring.

Just as some would look at a god which permits (and in the bible, endorses) genocide, rape, incest, slavery, child sacrifice, etc. and say, "This is a just and moral and loving god."

Some.


- Jo

So, similar to how one might determine if the bible is divinely inspired (and by nature, who/what that divinity is):

- How do you determine that these messages you receive are divinely inspired and not self-fulfilling prophecy? E.g.; an evil (by yours and my definition) dictator is inspired to exterminate any woman who puts herself equal to or above men. This dictator also believes his inspiration is a message direct from the god of Christianity. Who are we to say that he is not the one divinely inspired and you and I are just wishful-thinking when we think God is talking to us?

- How do you determine that the divine messages come from the god of Christianity and not, say, the Aztec god Quetzalcoatl? To say, "I don't know who Quetzalcoatl is" does not work as a measure. Because if the Christian god is the only god, then all the Aztecs who thought they were getting inspiration from Quetzalcoatl were actually getting messages from the Christian god. How do we know that it isn't the other way around?

Notions of a perfect world and an all protecting god are Eden. We have fallen from that state and now live in the world controlled by satan. We have the choice to believe or not. If one wants to go back to Eden, the perfect world, then one believes.

If one studies the physical origin of this planet (which is about 4.5 billion years old) one sees there was no "perfect world". The same forces that made this planet then are in operation now.

ruveyn

I'm not referring to a 'physical origin'.

that is what I secretly think lol, but I normally don't voice it. you know, just in case I offend anyone.

What other origins are there?

ruveyn