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If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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Inuyasha
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23 Sep 2011, 3:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

Sorry, the woman's rights do not include taking an innocent child's life. If the woman wants to give the child up for adoption, that's one thing, but taking the child's life is entirely different.


The child (actually fetus) within is a threat to a woman's life. Self defense takes precedence over all other claims to life. ALL OTHER CLAIMS. Whatever a woman does to protect her life if morally and should be legally permissible.


Every human fetus is a child, despite what pro-abortion nuts like to claim.

This isn't self defense, the child isn't threatening the woman, in fact it is extremely rare that there will be a life threatening issue for the mother (barring a pre-existing condition that the mother has).

ruveyn wrote:
You should nominate your mother for sainthood. She risked her life to give birth to you. Was it worth it?


Actually, I'm not the one that causes my mom the headaches, that would be my younger sibling whom is NT. However, yeah she thinks I'm worth it.



visagrunt
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23 Sep 2011, 4:18 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Every human fetus is a child, despite what pro-abortion nuts like to claim.


But that's not determinative of the issue. I have long ago conceded that a foetus is human, and that it is alive. And that is not sufficient to bring me around to your point of view until the point at which that living human is capable of living independently from the uterus.

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This isn't self defense, the child isn't threatening the woman, in fact it is extremely rare that there will be a life threatening issue for the mother (barring a pre-existing condition that the mother has).


It's not so cut and dried as all that. All pregnancy brings risk. Conservatively, I supposed about 5% of pregnancies should be considered "high-risk," but 1 in 20 is certainly not, "extremely rare." Even if we discount those pregnancies that are high risk by reason of threat exclusively to the child, we are still left with a significant number.

Your use of "barring a pre-existing condition that the mother has," is facile. Women who become pregnant and the doctors, nurses and midwives who treat them do not have the luxury of ignoring pre-existing conditions--and increasing number of pregnant women are presenting them.

Obesity, diabetes, hypertension and depression are all reaching epidemic levels, and every single one of them elevates the risk level of pregnancies. To dismiss them all as outliers to your thesis is to make a mockery of the realities on the ground that women and their obstetricians are dealing with.


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LKL
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23 Sep 2011, 4:25 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

Abortion isn't a matter of personal choice, it is a matter of life and death. The pro-abortion people try to change the subject to personal choice, because they know the instant the real issue gets discussed, they lose.


Whether I commit suicide or not is a matter of life and death. It is also a matter of personal choice. The two issues are not mutually exclusive. A woman had the right to defend herself against any threat to her life or health. Being pregnant is inherently life threatening. If a woman will not willing bear the risk of going to term, she should be free to take the less risky alternative -- to wit early abortion.


You do realize many of these "life-threatening issues" can be handled these days simply with good hygene, regular checkups, etc. We aren't living in the middle ages you know.

Just wanted to repeat this claim so that everyone can see, once again, what ignorant, piggish attitudes you display.



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23 Sep 2011, 4:44 pm

LKL wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

Abortion isn't a matter of personal choice, it is a matter of life and death. The pro-abortion people try to change the subject to personal choice, because they know the instant the real issue gets discussed, they lose.


Whether I commit suicide or not is a matter of life and death. It is also a matter of personal choice. The two issues are not mutually exclusive. A woman had the right to defend herself against any threat to her life or health. Being pregnant is inherently life threatening. If a woman will not willing bear the risk of going to term, she should be free to take the less risky alternative -- to wit early abortion.


You do realize many of these "life-threatening issues" can be handled these days simply with good hygene, regular checkups, etc. We aren't living in the middle ages you know.

Just wanted to repeat this claim so that everyone can see, once again, what ignorant, piggish attitudes you display.


Is Inayusha pro-life enough for have the state pay for pre-natal care?
8O :cry: :lol: :wink: :roll:


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23 Sep 2011, 4:49 pm

Beauty_pact wrote:
Those of you who over and over keep arguing against these anti-abortionists should try to get a career in politics, or similar, instead. You will accomplish very little, here.
It entertains me.

As you should know, there is a fun value in arguing and proving yourself better than others. Else you would not have needed to make that post.


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Inuyasha
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23 Sep 2011, 6:35 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
LKL wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

Abortion isn't a matter of personal choice, it is a matter of life and death. The pro-abortion people try to change the subject to personal choice, because they know the instant the real issue gets discussed, they lose.


Whether I commit suicide or not is a matter of life and death. It is also a matter of personal choice. The two issues are not mutually exclusive. A woman had the right to defend herself against any threat to her life or health. Being pregnant is inherently life threatening. If a woman will not willing bear the risk of going to term, she should be free to take the less risky alternative -- to wit early abortion.


You do realize many of these "life-threatening issues" can be handled these days simply with good hygene, regular checkups, etc. We aren't living in the middle ages you know.

Just wanted to repeat this claim so that everyone can see, once again, what ignorant, piggish attitudes you display.


Is Inayusha pro-life enough for have the state pay for pre-natal care?
8O :cry: :lol: :wink: :roll:


You do realize there are doctors out there that volunteer their time to give pre-natal care free of charge. There are also church groups that would assist as well.



Beauty_pact
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23 Sep 2011, 6:50 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Beauty_pact wrote:
Those of you who over and over keep arguing against these anti-abortionists should try to get a career in politics, or similar, instead. You will accomplish very little, here.
It entertains me.

As you should know, there is a fun value in arguing and proving yourself better than others. Else you would not have needed to make that post.


True, it can be entertaining, at times... I guess that is why many choose a political career, as well... which was my point, in a way... maybe not to become a politician, but to do related things. In the US, especially, those who are pro-choice on abortion must start standing up for it before the rights for abortion are taken away, one piece at a time. It always starts slow. Suddenly it's all gone.

While you certainly are having good discussions, in this thread, few other than those participating will bother to read it... so it will make very little difference, other than possible entertainment purposes, I guess.



Inuyasha
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23 Sep 2011, 6:54 pm

Beauty_pact wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Beauty_pact wrote:
Those of you who over and over keep arguing against these anti-abortionists should try to get a career in politics, or similar, instead. You will accomplish very little, here.
It entertains me.

As you should know, there is a fun value in arguing and proving yourself better than others. Else you would not have needed to make that post.


True, it can be entertaining, at times... I guess that is why many choose a political career, as well... which was my point, in a way... maybe not to become a politician, but to do related things. In the US, especially, those who are pro-choice on abortion must start standing up for it before the rights for abortion are taken away, one piece at a time. It always starts slow. Suddenly it's all gone.

While you certainly are having good discussions, in this thread, few other than those participating will bother to read it... so it will make very little difference, other than possible entertainment purposes, I guess.


Looks like this is a wake up for pro-lifers to stand up to pro-death crowd.

Showdown in Mississippi, hopefully the personhood amendment passes.



Oodain
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23 Sep 2011, 7:31 pm

Beauty_pact wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Beauty_pact wrote:
Those of you who over and over keep arguing against these anti-abortionists should try to get a career in politics, or similar, instead. You will accomplish very little, here.
It entertains me.

As you should know, there is a fun value in arguing and proving yourself better than others. Else you would not have needed to make that post.


True, it can be entertaining, at times... I guess that is why many choose a political career, as well... which was my point, in a way... maybe not to become a politician, but to do related things. In the US, especially, those who are pro-choice on abortion must start standing up for it before the rights for abortion are taken away, one piece at a time. It always starts slow. Suddenly it's all gone.

While you certainly are having good discussions, in this thread, few other than those participating will bother to read it... so it will make very little difference, other than possible entertainment purposes, I guess.


luckily for some of us lunacy like the previously mentioned vote wouldnt happen.
sure there are religious offshoots that probably do want it but they are a very small minority and the only political party that might have gone in that direction in the future is steadily losing seats in parliment, (they have been in government with 2 other political parties (all our governments are multi party governments, virtually) for 10 years and they havent even hinted at it so even that is far fetched, might even be a stretch for them)


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Inuyasha
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23 Sep 2011, 7:32 pm

Oodain wrote:
Beauty_pact wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Beauty_pact wrote:
Those of you who over and over keep arguing against these anti-abortionists should try to get a career in politics, or similar, instead. You will accomplish very little, here.
It entertains me.

As you should know, there is a fun value in arguing and proving yourself better than others. Else you would not have needed to make that post.


True, it can be entertaining, at times... I guess that is why many choose a political career, as well... which was my point, in a way... maybe not to become a politician, but to do related things. In the US, especially, those who are pro-choice on abortion must start standing up for it before the rights for abortion are taken away, one piece at a time. It always starts slow. Suddenly it's all gone.

While you certainly are having good discussions, in this thread, few other than those participating will bother to read it... so it will make very little difference, other than possible entertainment purposes, I guess.


luckily for some of us lunacy like the previously mentioned vote wouldnt happen.
sure there are religious offshoots that probably do want it but they are a very small minority and the only political party that might have gone in that direction in the future is steadily losing seats in parliment, (they have been in government with 2 other political parties (all our governments are multi party governments, virtually) for 10 years and they havent even hinted at it so even that is far fetched, might even be a stretch for them)


Actually the vote is going to happen, the Mississippi Supreme Court ruled that this amendment can be put up for a vote.



Oodain
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23 Sep 2011, 7:36 pm

???

:?


and?

that still doesnt mean anything to the majority of the planet you know.


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Inuyasha
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23 Sep 2011, 7:45 pm

Oodain wrote:
???

:?


and?

that still doesnt mean anything to the majority of the planet you know.


Means there is a chance that a State will have a Constitutional Amendment banning Abortions in nearly every circumstance.



pandabear
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23 Sep 2011, 7:50 pm

It looks like Inuyasha will be moving to Mississippi.



cave_canem
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23 Sep 2011, 8:34 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Oodain wrote:
???

:?


and?

that still doesnt mean anything to the majority of the planet you know.


Means there is a chance that a State will have a Constitutional Amendment banning Abortions in nearly every circumstance.


Yeah, and I think Oodain is telling you that the world does not revolve around the US.

And for that, we are all grateful.



Oodain
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23 Sep 2011, 8:51 pm

cave_canem wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Oodain wrote:
???

:?


and?

that still doesnt mean anything to the majority of the planet you know.


Means there is a chance that a State will have a Constitutional Amendment banning Abortions in nearly every circumstance.


Yeah, and I think Oodain is telling you that the world does not revolve around the US.

And for that, we are all grateful.

ramen


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23 Sep 2011, 9:14 pm

Oodain wrote:
ramen


On the subject of ramen, what's everyone's favourite kinds? I like hot chili. Any brands that are especially good? Without glutamate would be preferred.