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Do you believe God exists?
1) God is a being, that one can have a personal relationship. A person God. 30%  30%  [ 55 ]
2) God is an impersonal force that guides reality as it is. He decrees our laws of physics, but does not intervene to break them. 12%  12%  [ 22 ]
3) God does not exist. Reality can be explained by scientific inquiry and the scientific method in by itself. 33%  33%  [ 61 ]
4) I am not sure. There is the possibility that God does exist, or does not. We must follow the preponderance of evidence when drawing our conclusion. 26%  26%  [ 48 ]
Total votes : 186

AspE
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12 May 2016, 9:51 pm

What does it mean?



NoahYates
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12 May 2016, 9:54 pm

The wiki page is a pretty good start.


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


NoahYates
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12 May 2016, 9:57 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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12 May 2016, 10:35 pm

Are there anyone who is connected to The Great Creator, Spirit or American Indian / Red Path. I'm not sure if the correct name.

Zvi A.


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13 May 2016, 8:49 am

NoahYates wrote:
The wiki page is a pretty good start.

I understand if you don't want to talk about it.



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13 May 2016, 8:58 am

Dude... you pretend to be ignorant way too much... it comes off as trolling. You, I presume, have read this entire thread along with me... you can go back and read the conversation if you forgot.


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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13 May 2016, 9:03 am

NoahYates wrote:
Dude... you pretend to be ignorant way too much... it comes off as trolling. You, I presume, have read this entire thread along with me... you can go back and read the conversation if you forgot.

i am sick of the look of your face and it stops me from reading your posts.
you always crop up in this thread with that avatar of yours and it is irritating.



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13 May 2016, 9:54 am

I'm not fond of double posting when a simple edit and addition would suffice.



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13 May 2016, 1:17 pm

Wow... I am taken aback... that is incredibly hurtful. I suppose if you and I were in an environment where we were discussing these things in person you would hate my face so much that you couldn't listen to me? What you said is mean enough to make me want to change my avatar... but I don't want to do that just because a bully pettily complains that they cant stand my face. I actually purposefully used my face as my avatar, because I want to put myself out there, as I am otherwise a total recluse. I apologize if I have recently come off as more arrogant than my demeanor usually portrays. I have been more than slightly annoyed with AspE's assertions about Alan Watts, who is one of my greatest intellectual heroes. I do not want others to be misled by someone who has only read barely any of his work. Its unfortunate that you have been unable to read my posts because of something so superficial as an unpleasant face being attached to it.


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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13 May 2016, 2:02 pm

Grischa wrote:
Been reading Alan Watts, "What To Tell Children About God And The Universe"
https://www.facebook.com/notes/alan-watts-wisdom/what-to-tell-children-about-god-and-the-universe/239561399422139/

God also likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, He has no one but himself to play with. But He gets over this difficulty by pretending that He is not Himself. This is His way of hiding from Himself. He pretends that He is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way He has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when He wakes up they will disappear.
Now when God plays hide and pretends that He is you and I, He does it so well that it takes Him a long time to remember where and how He hid Himself. But that’s the whole fun of it-just what He wanted to do. He doesn’t want to find Himself out too quickly


So If I'm correct Watts doesn't have the classic christian concept of God but a pantheistic one, God externalized/particularized himself in nature (as a game?).
I don't know what to think of it. It is basically eastern or Indian philosophy "with a modern edge"
Maybe this is positive: that in this theory there is some necessity in the proces of creation, it is not just at random that life occurs. There's a reason why (against all odds) there's life, fine tuning, etc etc
Otherwise you get Hawking c.s. with the theory of the multiverse, but multiverse explanations seem no better.
Still I don't know, everything just a dream, it goes against common sense


I have not read that particular book of Alan's I am mostly familiar with his lectures. My very favorite lecture of his where I feel he most eloquently "says what needs to be said" is his lecture on G.K. Chesterton. The basic idea is that God is pretending not to be God. Indeed this is the fundamental teaching of the esoteric traditions of most of the world's religions. Alan Watts was a new age thinker, who strove to show the underlying fabric that is mutual to all ideologies. God, Brahman, the Eternal Tao all are words that circumscribe the same ineffable something. It is extremely difficult to talk about the nature of God. I actually would recommend reading about Brahman from Hinduism. Brahman is not exactly like "God"... but in my own ontology they are describing the same "Substance." I actually prefer the Hindu conception of Brahman over the conception of a "Monarchical God" of the Abrahamic tradition. Alan Watts was personally very heavily influenced by Zen Buddhism, which blends the Taoism with Buddhism (itself entirely based in Hindu philosophy and ontology.)


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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13 May 2016, 4:04 pm

I pronounce this day as "new avatar day"

mine is a bit too happy but please don't mind



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13 May 2016, 4:19 pm

Happy new avatar day.
I might change mine at 1000.

Last night went to church. It was small group night.
This morning started with reading a bible verse. On the way to work listened to Christian radio.
Tomorrow get to share at a homeless center.
I'm still working on humility.


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14 May 2016, 7:11 am


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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14 May 2016, 9:59 am

This Indian person reminds me of travelling through India in 2001 and 2002. I felt much at home there. Seems a perfect place, almost all are ND there.
Btw: according to my new avatar, I'm totally Zen now, thanks to Alan Watts
AspE, if you know something better, then please give me a hint, so that I can read it



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14 May 2016, 10:15 am

Now and zen I'm balanced.
I like questions. Here are some in video/song form.


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14 May 2016, 11:04 am

For those that have faith in God, would you jump off a high place (cliff, balcony, building) with the faith that God will let you land unharmed?

What if someone's wrong?