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Colonization of the solar system

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Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 7:01 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29


That would certainly increase the motivation to colonize other planets since in a very short time the Earth would become uninhabitable for local radiation levels.


The adjustment to said law need only concern extra-atmospheric testing. No requirement to do any nuking IN the atmosphere.


There are already interplanetary probes utilizing nuclear components.



Macbeth
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17 Nov 2010, 7:03 pm

Sand wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29


That would certainly increase the motivation to colonize other planets since in a very short time the Earth would become uninhabitable for local radiation levels.


The adjustment to said law need only concern extra-atmospheric testing. No requirement to do any nuking IN the atmosphere.


There are already interplanetary probes utilizing nuclear components.


Not with nuclear-explosion-powered drives. Its THAT which would need a new clause for the testing.


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Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 7:14 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Sand wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29


That would certainly increase the motivation to colonize other planets since in a very short time the Earth would become uninhabitable for local radiation levels.


The adjustment to said law need only concern extra-atmospheric testing. No requirement to do any nuking IN the atmosphere.


There are already interplanetary probes utilizing nuclear components.


Not with nuclear-explosion-powered drives. Its THAT which would need a new clause for the testing.


Too dangerous. Nuclear testing has already made many places on Earth uninhabitable. Many nuclear power plants are emitting dangerous radiation into the environment through carelessness and poor management. Nuclear people simply cannot be trusted, especially for cockeyed plans for space colonization.



ruveyn
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17 Nov 2010, 7:17 pm

Sand wrote:
X

Too dangerous. Nuclear testing has already made many places on Earth uninhabitable. Many nuclear power plants are emitting dangerous radiation into the environment through carelessness and poor management. Nuclear people simply cannot be trusted, especially for cockeyed plans for space colonization.


If what you say is true then your great grandchildren and mine better get used to freezing in the dark during winter.

ruveyn



Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 7:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
X

Too dangerous. Nuclear testing has already made many places on Earth uninhabitable. Many nuclear power plants are emitting dangerous radiation into the environment through carelessness and poor management. Nuclear people simply cannot be trusted, especially for cockeyed plans for space colonization.


If what you say is true then your great grandchildren and mine better get used to freezing in the dark during winter.

ruveyn


The way the world is going winter will be obsolete. Atomic power is dangerous, badly managed and totally uneconomical.



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17 Nov 2010, 8:03 pm

Sand wrote:

The way the world is going winter will be obsolete. Atomic power is dangerous, badly managed and totally uneconomical.


The actuarial analysis show nuclear generated electricity costs about the same as oil generated electricity. Much of the expense consists of the regulations and restrictions.

Modern modular reactors are much more economical than the old style light water reactors. If we were allow to build such reactors now we could generate electricity at about half the cost of oil generated electricity .

Your grandchildren and mine are likely to see the beginning of the next ice age in their lifetimes.

ruveyn



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17 Nov 2010, 8:09 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29


That would certainly increase the motivation to colonize other planets since in a very short time the Earth would become uninhabitable for local radiation levels.


So don't use the drive till you clear earth orbit...

To be frank and I know a lot of it is sci-fi I would like to see a lot of research done into Star Trek Tech particularly shielding and drive systems (impulse used Fusion instead of fission but Fission could work). Part of the problem we're dealing with on missions outside of Earth's orbit is radiation shielding and the added mass. If we can provide the same shielding via energy rather than physical mass it would significantly cut down on costs to launch such a mission.



iamnotaparakeet
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17 Nov 2010, 8:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
winter will be obsolete.
next ice age


I'm thinking, what on Earth? Sand for Global Warming and Ruveyn for Global Cooling? How about Global Both depending upon the rotation of the Earth upon its axis and its axial tilt affecting heating and cooling throughout the revolution of the Earth around the Sun?



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17 Nov 2010, 8:18 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
winter will be obsolete.
next ice age


I'm thinking, what on Earth? Sand for Global Warming and Ruveyn for Global Cooling? How about Global Both depending upon the rotation of the Earth upon its axis and its axial tilt affecting heating and cooling throughout the revolution of the Earth around the Sun?


The history of the earth over the last few million years has consisted of warm periods alternating with cooling periods. At one time the earth was a snowball.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth

ruveyn



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17 Nov 2010, 8:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29


That would certainly increase the motivation to colonize other planets since in a very short time the Earth would become uninhabitable for local radiation levels.


So don't use the drive till you clear earth orbit...

To be frank and I know a lot of it is sci-fi I would like to see a lot of research done into Star Trek Tech particularly shielding and drive systems (impulse used Fusion instead of fission but Fission could work). Part of the problem we're dealing with on missions outside of Earth's orbit is radiation shielding and the added mass. If we can provide the same shielding via energy rather than physical mass it would significantly cut down on costs to launch such a mission.


The problem with any active system like that is, what happens when you run out of power or otherwise your electrical grid fails? You get man eating dinosaurs. Okay, not really. But anyway it is better to have a passive system, such as a hull which is able to protect against radiation. It would be nearly impossible to ship up a massive ship with a hull such as that all at once however, it is not impossible to assemble items brought up piecemeal - which would be a safer bet anyhow since all would not be lost if a single mission failed.



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17 Nov 2010, 8:29 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


Forget birth defects. Being in zero g too long will cause human bone to crumble into a chalk like powder. The Russian cosmonaut that spent two years in space came back home with the skeleton of an 80 year old man with osteoporosis.

ruveyn



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17 Nov 2010, 8:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


Forget birth defects. Being in zero g too long will cause human bone to crumble into a chalk like powder. The Russian cosmonaut that spent two years in space came back home with the skeleton of an 80 year old man with osteoporosis.

ruveyn


Hence:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mwIHCBrjo[/youtube]



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18 Nov 2010, 12:55 am

The thing is that with Sci-fi style of artifical gravity comes other things such as Inertial Dampeners and Structural Integrity fields. The generating gravity through rotating objects has a limit that reduces the possible acceleration a ship can handle for the safety of the crew.

Nice Video though.



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18 Nov 2010, 1:14 am

Inuyasha wrote:
The thing is that with Sci-fi style of artifical gravity comes other things such as Inertial Dampeners and Structural Integrity fields. The generating gravity through rotating objects has a limit that reduces the possible acceleration a ship can handle for the safety of the crew.

Nice Video though.


There is another problem. If the radius of the centrifuge is too small placing the head off axis (i.e. not aligned with a radius of the circular spin) can cause extreme dizziness and nausea. If we are going to have "merry go round space ships" they will have to be fairly large diameter centrifuges to prevent vestibular effects.

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18 Nov 2010, 3:03 am

ruveyn wrote:
Forget birth defects. Being in zero g too long will cause human bone to crumble into a chalk like powder. The Russian cosmonaut that spent two years in space came back home with the skeleton of an 80 year old man with osteoporosis.

ruveyn

Correction - being in microgravity too long, then abruptly returning to a 1-g field, can cause human bone to crumble. The bones are just fine in space - the body starts leaching them of calcium because the structural strength is unnecessary in a microgravity environment. This can be offset by regular, intensive exercise, which simulates the effects of a body fighting gravity and reduces symptoms of long-term low-g exposure. If you're colonizing Mars or Luna, though, the exercise can be cut back; the skeleton and musculature of a normal 1-g human just gets in the way under 1/3 or 1/6 g.

There is no evidence that microgravity results in birth defects; while, of course, we have not yet subjected a human to such experimentation, various animals (notably fish and insects, selected for having brief gestation periods) have reproduced without any gravitationally-related anomalies. (Were I to worry about birth defects in space, my primary concern would be with cosmic and solar radiation, not microgravity.)


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18 Nov 2010, 9:02 am

DeaconBlues wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Forget birth defects. Being in zero g too long will cause human bone to crumble into a chalk like powder. The Russian cosmonaut that spent two years in space came back home with the skeleton of an 80 year old man with osteoporosis.

ruveyn

Correction - being in microgravity too long, then abruptly returning to a 1-g field, can cause human bone to crumble. The bones are just fine in space - the body starts leaching them of calcium because the structural strength is unnecessary in a microgravity environment. This can be offset by regular, intensive exercise, which simulates the effects of a body fighting gravity and reduces symptoms of long-term low-g exposure. If you're colonizing Mars or Luna, though, the exercise can be cut back; the skeleton and musculature of a normal 1-g human just gets in the way under 1/3 or 1/6 g.



One energetic push too many and old "weak bones" crashes into the side of his space vessel and fractures some ribs. There is plenty wrong with having weak bones even in micro gravity.

ruveyn