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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 11:08 am

@Ruveyn: You might get a kick out of this ...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 1892568628

Image


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Philologos
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23 Feb 2011, 12:11 pm

Natty_Boh wrote:
Rubbish, I think.


THAT one looks to me more like rubble, but who's countingf?



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23 Feb 2011, 12:17 pm

Philologos wrote:
Natty_Boh wrote:
Rubbish, I think.


THAT one looks to me more like rubble, but who's counting?


Not me - too busy with Devastating Prooftexts 101 at the moment.


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JakobVirgil
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23 Feb 2011, 10:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:
kxmode wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
do you know why more Jews don't become christian?


I'm curious. Why not?


Because Christianity is a silly religion, that is why.

ruveyn


Ruveyn wins a cigar. :lol:



Philologos
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23 Feb 2011, 10:22 pm

Not a polemic [and I have no cigars to pass on or out, sorry]:

But I would be just tickled pink to hear which of all the religions known to have been in business at ans time past or present, where we have as much information as I have on the Druze - just enough, that is to get a minimal idea of beliefs and practices -

WHICH out of them all is not going to strike a thoughtful atheist as silly?

Given that many of them - as we have seen - strike even theists not adherents of the religion in question as silly, it is hard to see how any would avoid judgement as silly.



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25 Feb 2011, 11:15 am

kxmode wrote:
I'm a really nice person. Honest.


I believe that is true, kxmode.

And yet when I tell you that you have hurt me, rather than apologize to me and seek my forgiveness you defend your actions.

I ask you to examine your conscience on that particular question. In my faith, G-d can and will forgive all, but only after you have sought forgiveness from those you have wronged.

I am prepared to forgive--you need only seek it, in good faith, to have it from me.


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leejosepho
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25 Feb 2011, 11:25 am

Philologos wrote:
Not a polemic [and I have no cigars to pass on or out, sorry]:

But I would be just tickled pink to hear which of all the religions known to have been in business at ans time past or present ...

Yes, all silly.


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sartresue
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25 Feb 2011, 11:38 am

visagrunt wrote:
kxmode wrote:
I'm a really nice person. Honest.


I believe that is true, kxmode.

And yet when I tell you that you have hurt me, rather than apologize to me and seek my forgiveness you defend your actions.

I ask you to examine your conscience on that particular question. In my faith, G-d can and will forgive all, but only after you have sought forgiveness from those you have wronged.

I am prepared to forgive--you need only seek it, in good faith, to have it from me.


VisaGRANT topic

What a nice guy Mr. Visagrunt is. We all could learn a thing or two here. 8)


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25 Feb 2011, 12:12 pm

Actually, I think that the Christian concept of forgiveness does not require the Christian to receive a request of forgiveness from the transgressor prior to issuing forgiveness.



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25 Feb 2011, 1:51 pm

I cannot speak to Christianity, of course.

In Judaism, it is religiously required to forgive the person who seeks it from you sincerely. Further, it is a religious obligation for Jews to seek forgiveness from those we have wronged, for G-d will not forgive those wrongs that have been done to other people.

This comes to the fore in Jewish observance in the period between Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur during which time it is supposed that the Book of Life has been written, but not yet sealed. During this time, Jews are taught to make reparations and seek forgiveness from those that they have wronged. We then seek forgiveness from G-d on Yom Kippur for the transgression committed against G-d.

Even if one does not believe in the Book of Life, it is no bad thing to be taught that you are obliged to seek forgiveness from the people you have hurt.


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25 Feb 2011, 2:06 pm

pandabear wrote:
Actually, I think that the Christian concept of forgiveness does not require the Christian to receive a request of forgiveness from the transgressor prior to issuing forgiveness.


I really hope you can find it in your heart to overlook what I might tomorrow decide to say in response to that; my tone could be most uncalled for.



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25 Feb 2011, 2:15 pm

visagrunt:

"In Judaism, it is religiously required to forgive the person who seeks it from you sincerely. Further, it is a religious obligation for Jews to seek forgiveness from those we have wronged, for G-d will not forgive those wrongs that have been done to other people."

Oh me oh my, how that takes me back. Three incidents, from around the same time in my life - like a three year period.

1. I have a student who from day 1 clearly cannot but loathe me - no obvious reason.

At the end of the semester I take her aside, apologize for anything I might have said or done to provoke, albeit unwittingly, that reaction.

Her response - to denounce me to the authorities for sexual harassment [the last thing on my mind, believe me!]

2. There is a person who worked for years to pull me down and do me dirt. Again no obvious reason.

After contact has been broken off, she calls me up and apologizes. I tell her I forgive her.

Her response - to snap at me that she does not want my stinking forgiveness and hang up.

3. There is a person whom I have harmed, nothing I intended, nothing I could help, but it happened.

I visit her, ask for her forgiveness.

Her response - to tell me she forgives me, followed by about two hours of pointing out how totally reprehensible and unacceptable. my conduct was.

----------------

It is sheer coincidence all three examples happened to be female.



sartresue
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25 Feb 2011, 3:26 pm

Philologos wrote:
visagrunt:

"In Judaism, it is religiously required to forgive the person who seeks it from you sincerely. Further, it is a religious obligation for Jews to seek forgiveness from those we have wronged, for G-d will not forgive those wrongs that have been done to other people."

Oh me oh my, how that takes me back. Three incidents, from around the same time in my life - like a three year period.

1. I have a student who from day 1 clearly cannot but loathe me - no obvious reason.

At the end of the semester I take her aside, apologize for anything I might have said or done to provoke, albeit unwittingly, that reaction.

Her response - to denounce me to the authorities for sexual harassment [the last thing on my mind, believe me!]

2. There is a person who worked for years to pull me down and do me dirt. Again no obvious reason.

After contact has been broken off, she calls me up and apologizes. I tell her I forgive her.

Her response - to snap at me that she does not want my stinking forgiveness and hang up.

3. There is a person whom I have harmed, nothing I intended, nothing I could help, but it happened.

I visit her, ask for her forgiveness.

Her response - to tell me she forgives me, followed by about two hours of pointing out how totally reprehensible and unacceptable. my conduct was.

----------------

It is sheer coincidence all three examples happened to be female.


Wringing out the wrong! topic

You can apologize for transgressions, but the offended party does not have to forgive you.

I have apologized for mistakes and the forgiveness rate is about 20%. This is the way it is. and the rate of hope that others to apologize to you is probably even more dismal. It takes great maturity to own up to persoanl failures and to learn from them. Of course, some mistakes are reprehensible.

After apologizing, whether the other party forgives or not is optional. the only thing you can do is to move on, and try to learn from the mistake. Life is never easy, as there is no set of instructions that came with birth as to what to do.

Just do your best. 8)


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Philologos
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25 Feb 2011, 4:19 pm

Which is where it lies. I have had no further interaction of any kind with any of those three or certain other nutcases [no, I am not a psych industry professonal, but nutcase is ot a professional diagnosis].

I trust they too have moved on.



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25 Feb 2011, 5:59 pm

I could not have said it better, sartresue.


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leejosepho
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25 Feb 2011, 6:08 pm

Philologos wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Actually, I think that the Christian concept of forgiveness does not require the Christian to receive a request of forgiveness from the transgressor prior to issuing forgiveness.


I really hope you can find it in your heart to overlook what I might tomorrow decide to say in response to that; my tone could be most uncalled for.

One of the harshest verbal rebukes I have ever came from an elder right after I had plead, "Please forgive me if ..."

As he saw things, I had just announced my intent to knowingly commit a wrong!


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