Important notice: Understanding attacks on homosexuality

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DW_a_mom
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23 Feb 2011, 6:37 pm

leejosepho wrote:

As plagiarized by me so I do not get busted for cross-posting or whatever that might be called:

Quote:

The all-purpose MindYourOwnBusiness code:

1) Do not offend others by treating them the way they treat you;

2) Bite your lip if/when somebody else slips and breaks rule #1.

Here's a reason you have to show more restraint in how you treat others than you believe they are showing you:

One's perception of someone else's level of attack and restraint is often distorted. What a persons sees as a 75% attack, 25% response, will often be seen by a nuetral 3rd party viewer as a 40% attack, 60% response. If people live trying to respond like to like, they actually end up responding 90 points attack for every 10 they actually received, and pretty soon everything escalates into a bloody war.

So, respond at no more than what you think is 10 - 20% of the level thrown at you, and you might actually have a chance at reaching resolution.

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MidlifeAspie
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23 Feb 2011, 6:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Define "fight back". I don't see any of the mods (or anyone else here) having a problem with arguing with someone about their views on homosexuality, the problem comes with personally attacking them in order to "punish" them for their beliefs. There is a world of difference between arguing with someone over a personally held opinion and making suggestions about their own sexuality, impersonating them or people close to them in order to humiliate them, or otherwise taking actions solely designed to harm or cause duress to the other poster. Everyone has the right to their opinions, the right to pursue vendettas against people with whom we disagree is not so protected.

This. Both sides behaved badly and yet within the grey area of the rules. Therefore, the rules need to be redefined so everyone knows what is acceptable and what isn't. Stay tuned for tomorrow

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DW_a_mom
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23 Feb 2011, 6:43 pm

skafather84 wrote:

MidlifeAspie wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Except only one of those groups is a choice.

This is a debatable opinion and not one I am going to engage.

True...not many people can be broken out of habits and mythology introduced at early age without it being stated as false by those same authories (like Santa) so religion to many people may be as much of a choice as homosexuality for many.

Also: I think something that might throw a wrench into people's conceptions about homosexuality are bisexuals who can pretty much go for whatever they want. That'd most certainly confuse people since most have trouble seeing beyond basic dualities.

I'm the one who objected to having faith treated differently on the basis of it being a choice. Things are more complicated than that and we'd make a mistake allowing faith groups to get bashed because of that reasoning. Most of it is in this thread.

As for your "also" there at the end ... we could have a very interesting conversation about how sexuality is actually a spectrum so that someone born 60/40 probably does make a choice while someone born 95/5 really does not, but ... I really really need to get back to work now. Another day, maybe

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 6:45 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

... respond at no more than what you think is 10 - 20% of the level thrown at you, and you might actually have a chance at reaching resolution.

Possibly, but I personally prefer 0% from my side of the table.

In any case, that thing I had posted was meant to only be heard as a tongue-in-cheek thing ... but I goofed terribly in my timing.

Please forgive.

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 6:48 pm

MidlifeAspie wrote:

... the rules need to be redefined ...

So then, you have just either announced or "leaked" :wink:

an administrative decision along that line?

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skafather84
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23 Feb 2011, 6:48 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

MidlifeAspie wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Except only one of those groups is a choice.

This is a debatable opinion and not one I am going to engage.

That was what I was trying to get across in my own clumsy way....that there is more to it for some (maybe most?) people and while on the surface seems like a choice, may not be once one gets into the psychological processes of it.

Quote:

As for your "also" there at the end ... we could have a very interesting conversation about how sexuality is actually a spectrum so that someone born 60/40 probably does make a choice while someone born 95/5 really does not, but ... I really really need to get back to work now. Another day, maybe

It'd be more interesting and probably more honest to the actual spectrum of sexuality.

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skafather84
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23 Feb 2011, 6:50 pm

leejosepho wrote:

MidlifeAspie wrote:

... the rules need to be redefined ...

So then, you have just either announced or "leaked" :wink:

an administrative decision along that line?

An observation of a need does not necessarily confirm that the need will be addressed. Politics reminds us of this every day.

Butterflies
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23 Feb 2011, 6:53 pm

Leejosepho wrote:

Please, B'flies, please do not go back to all of that stuff above the line you had drawn as we all began anew.

I have no interest in causing problems with you. I am not meaning to attack you. As far as I am concerned I have made up with you. That does not extend to everybody else I have had an issue with, although I'm not trying to cause problems. I'm just putting forward my point of view.

Leejosepho wrote:

Whoa! Said allegation is only against one since-retired mod, yours truly, a new friend as I see things, and those "edits" was only one, as I recall, turning alleged "idiots" back into "people".

I wasn't talking about that edit. I have no idea if you were even the mod responsible. All of my first 24 posts were deleted, even ones that were completely innocent and not related to the issue.

Butterflies wrote:

... people who disagree with your views should be free to fight back.

Leejosepho wrote:

Please define your perception or view of "fight back", and please try to do so with this reflected:

Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.

If those are the rules, then it must be within my rights to say that that it is my view that the people who shout loudest about homosexuality are often the people who are using homophobia to hide their own homosexuality. I said that. It was deleted.

I'm really not wanting to make a big deal out of this. I can understand why many of the actions were taken.

MidlifeAspie
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23 Feb 2011, 6:59 pm

skafather84 wrote:

An observation of a need does not necessarily confirm that the need will be addressed.

We are actively working on having the need addressed. Just need a little time and space to do so.

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Butterflies
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23 Feb 2011, 7:00 pm

leejosepho wrote:

MidlifeAspie wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

As when you came here trolling or do you mean at some other time somewhere else?

And there you go inflaming a conversation that was coming to a peaceful resolution. I do not believe that there is any grounds for calling Butterflies a troll.

She has already voluntarily admitted that publicly here on WP ...

Your statement makes absolutely no sense!

I had only asked whether or not she was referring to the recent incident here.

I wouldn't really say that's strictly true. I have admitted that some of my early behaviour could be termed trolling, at your insistance. I do not think I am a troll.

leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 7:10 pm

Butterflies wrote:

I have no interest in causing problems with you. I am not meaning to attack you. As far as I am concerned I have made up with you.

Oh yes, all is well between you and me.

Butterflies wrote:

All of my first 24 posts were deleted ...

Rightly or wrongly, removing those posts from public view -- they are all archived in the back -- was my own, solo doing ... and as I recall, I left a note (I hope!) where it could be seen by anyone having access behind the curtain.

Butterflies wrote:

Quote:

Right or wrong, I did that all on my own and only in hope that my doing so might avert any "hot flash" rise out of 'keet or anyone else. And for the record here, I happen to agree, at least in principle:

Personally, I can easily see how any one of us might speak loudest against something we fear in relation to ourselves.

Butterflies wrote:

I can understand why many of the actions were taken.

I thank you for sharing that publicly so I can here attest to your sincerity.

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 7:13 pm

Butterflies wrote:

I have admitted that some of my early behaviour could be termed trolling ...
I do not think I am a troll.

We agree.

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 7:20 pm

MidlifeAspie wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

An observation of a need does not necessarily confirm that the need will be addressed.

We are actively working on having the need addressed. Just need a little time and space to do so.

Where you have previous experience as a mod, I have an additional 14-or-so months out here on WP forums ... and with all respect due to you, sincerely, experience out here says there will be no rule modification/s.

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Butterflies
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23 Feb 2011, 7:22 pm

Butterflies wrote:

I can understand why many of the actions were taken.

Leejosepho wrote:

I thank you for sharing that publicly so I can here attest to your sincerity.

I was only talking about my first 24 posts. After that I do have different feelings.

MidlifeAspie
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23 Feb 2011, 7:24 pm

leejosepho wrote:

experience out here says there will be no rule modification/s.

We'll look back at this tomorrow morning

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 7:30 pm

MidlifeAspie wrote:

We'll look back at [experience out here says there will be no rule modification/s] tomorrow morning

Agreed!

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