President Obama releases the long form copy of his birth cer

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aghogday
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01 May 2011, 4:43 pm

BurntOutMom wrote:

aghogday wrote:

[On G.W. Bush]
I think many people in the general public saw that as a quality rather than a detriment; not likely many perfectionists saw it that way. I was one of those perfectionists, and it made me cringe to imagine that a President could say the things he did in Public, but that is the point, he did, kept doing it, and it didn't slow him down.

When the U.N. ,and I specifically recall France, told W. Bush that they wouldn’t support a US mission in Iraq, and Bush acted in a very Cartman-esque way, “Screw you guys, I’m a do what I want…” I had a very distinct impression of a “my penis is bigger than yours” attitude… Of course, he’d never be able to articulate it as such…

“Well, uuummm, see my penis… if we were to compare them, I mean, hold them side by side… But not touching, cuz I’m not homosexual.. not that I have anything against homosexuals, but uuuhhh everyone knows you go to hell for it, so it’s wrong.. but ummm if we were to ummm side by side compare our penises, you would uhhhh see that the collective American penis is uhhhh bigger, not to say that your’s is small, but uuhh collectively, your penis is not as big as my uuuh American penis… cuz, well… I’ve been in foreign restrooms, and not that I looked, cuz that would be gay, but I noticed that uuuhhhh my cock is bigger. I win. Let's go to war."

:wink:

Horrible diplomacy, but there were some people over here loving every minute of it. I didn't think Bill O'Reilly would ever let it go. I remember "Freedom Fries".

That's really funny but evident in the core Patriarchy of our country. It seems some are fighting any change that moves in a direction different than Patriarachy. I'm not sure some even consciously realize that is the reason.

psychohist
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01 May 2011, 4:52 pm

simon_says wrote:

I think the offense is in the eye of the beholder. It's not racism, just an effort to address historical inequality.

Ah yes, the "two wrongs make a right" theory of racism.

DW_a_mom wrote:

Scrutiny happens. The thing is, we are now very much at the point of "further" with Obama. How many presidents have to defend their BIRTH?

Frankly, I think it would be fine if candidates started routinely releasing nonelectronic copies of their birth certificates, just like they routinely release copies of their income tax returns.

BurntOutMom wrote:

As far as his (G.W.'s) "Ivy League" education goes, I don't doubt for a moment that people questioned it. Although, I do have to consider that it's one thing to go to a top-notch school, and quite another to actually pass your classes. If people claim he did THAT, I'd have questions... Or at the very least assume he was graded on the curve.

Bush graduated, so he must have passed his classes. Same with Obama. Were they graded gently? Possibly. There's nothing that prohibits private schools from doing that.

zer0netgain
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02 May 2011, 8:08 am

Some points (based on multiple replies by others)....

"...that a black man really couldn't earn his way to Harvard...."

FACT - Ivy League admissions ARE NOT all based on ability and grades. This is especially so with minorities and women. It's actually true at many, many institutions across the nation, and more so, many are admitted to Ivy League schools because someone with clout gets them in. After all, references are everything. G.W. Bush got in as a "legacy" student, for example. Obama not only got into one of the most prestigious schools with no clue of how good his academic records was, but HE PAID FOR IT. As someone from a poor family, this defies sensibility. Supposedly, he paid off his student loans via a book deal he made after graduation. Really? A man from nowhere and no family of prominence who hadn't done anything of significance in his whole life got a book deal so lucrative that it paid off an Ivy League education practically overnight? That doesn't make you scratch your head and wonder who pulled several strings to set up that book deal? Something isn't right here, but most of the media refused to look into this matter.

Scrutinize where the money comes from and you see what kind of people associate with a potential candidate.

"Obama made Harvard Law Review. No mean feat. He is smarter than the younger Bush."

Granted, but....

FACT - Making law review doesn't mean you are the "brightest" student in the school class. Like anything else in life, those who suck up to the people who decide who get on the law review have a much better chance of getting the job even if others are more academically deserving. Obama may have been a good student, but the odds are he got the job because of who he knew and who he sucked up to when in law school...not because he was the top contender for the job.

A note on Obama graduating Magna Cum Laude....

The standard for Magna Cum Laude is a GPA of 3.80 to 3.89. B is 3.0. A is 4.0. A- typically is somewhere over 3.5.

I graduated college Cum Laude which was a solid B+ average.

Getting As in law school IS NOT about being good with knowing the material (believe it or not). Law exams are about how well you can regurgitate material on a timed exam, not how well you understand the material. Most effective litigators were C average students in law school because actual application of law is very common sense. The lawyers who are hired to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin were the A students in law school, but in common litigation, they over-think everything and are generally a pain in the ass trying to find a technicality for everything.

To get an A on a law exam, the secret is to learn what the professor wants to see in an "A paper" and structure your studying accordingly. Most professors put an example "A paper" on file from a prior class for students to look over if they want to. The exam itself is all about "issue spotting." People who are good at nitpicking over fine details have a better chance of getting higher grades than those who take a more simplistic approach to the question(s) being asked.

Hence, being a B+/A- student does not mean you are "smart." You might be "intelligent," but as Obama has routinely illustrated, he is a buffoon on so many matters but believes he is smarter than everyone else. I don't doubt Obama could run circles around me on a law exam, but would he really appreciate the content of what the material covered or just be eloquent at spinning the details into whatever he wants it to be?

JakobVirgil
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02 May 2011, 8:30 am

zer0netgain wrote:

so if he had a C average you would like him?

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Kraichgauer
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02 May 2011, 12:42 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

so if he had a C average you would like him?

No, he'd then hold it against Obama that he wasn't an A student. If someone figures he or she hates someone else, they'll rationalize any reason.
As a side note JacobVirgil - did you get a brand new avatar?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

JakobVirgil
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02 May 2011, 1:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

so if he had a C average you would like him?

yes, I did thanks for noticing

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zer0netgain
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03 May 2011, 7:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

so if he had a C average you would like him?

Aren't some of us being very presumptuous?

I have no issue with Obama for his grades in school or necessarily that he went to a given school. I do despise how he lauds his education as if it makes him superior to others (my Civil Procedure professor in law school was a Harvard graduate and f*****g brilliant...with a true photographic memory to boot, but he was a kind and down-to-earth person).

I despise Obama for being such an obvious crooked Chicago politician, but thinking he can claim to be something else and everyone should believe his claim rather than examine who he associates with and what he really has done over the years.

As a rule, I despise phonies. I really despise the phonies who are skilled at bullshitting everyone to get their way in life.

JakobVirgil
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03 May 2011, 9:09 am

zer0netgain wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

so if he had a C average you would like him?

Aren't some of us being very presumptuous?

I have no issue with Obama for his grades in school or necessarily that he went to a given school. I do despise how he lauds his education as if it makes him superior to others (my Civil Procedure professor in law school was a Harvard graduate and f***ing brilliant...with a true photographic memory to boot, but he was a kind and down-to-earth person).

I despise Obama for being such an obvious crooked Chicago politician, but thinking he can claim to be something else and everyone should believe his claim rather than examine who he associates with and what he really has done over the years.

As a rule, I despise phonies. I really despise the phonies who are skilled at bullshitting everyone to get their way in life.

ah, you dispise him for having a skill we lack bullshiting A.K.A. social graces.
that is fair enough I too hate the golden boys.
GWB fake texas dialect was the real reason a begain to dislike him.
Y'all is the plural of you George used it to mean one person.
the dude is from new england.
(how can you trust a guy faking his dialect?)

I don't think Obama talks much about his school
or
I just have not heard it.
he mostly just blathers on about intagibles.

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Their hungry thirsty roots??

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Asp-Z
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03 May 2011, 9:39 am

I know the real reason behind all this birth certificate nonsense...

Kraichgauer
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03 May 2011, 12:49 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

so if he had a C average you would like him?

Aren't some of us being very presumptuous?

I have no issue with Obama for his grades in school or necessarily that he went to a given school. I do despise how he lauds his education as if it makes him superior to others (my Civil Procedure professor in law school was a Harvard graduate and f***ing brilliant...with a true photographic memory to boot, but he was a kind and down-to-earth person).

I despise Obama for being such an obvious crooked Chicago politician, but thinking he can claim to be something else and everyone should believe his claim rather than examine who he associates with and what he really has done over the years.

As a rule, I despise phonies. I really despise the phonies who are skilled at bullshitting everyone to get their way in life.

As I recall, Mark David Chapman shot John Lennon because he thought Lennon was really a phony. I'm sorry, but whenever talk about "phoniness" comes up, I have since learned to become leery.
And I think you are searching for the term elitist in describing Obama's emphasis on his higher learning. Well, I've gotta tell you - while it may just be my Asperger's - I tend to feel lost around people without higher education. That is, I'm more inclined to talk about current events, history, or the like than I am about sports or fixing cars. I've come to embrace my intellectual interests, as well as my disdain for people who wantonly embrace ignorance. As Bill Maher has said on the subject, "Say it loud - I'm elite and I'm proud." So I'm not about to fault the President for essentially the same thing.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

zer0netgain
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04 May 2011, 6:34 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

....And I think you are searching for the term elitist in describing Obama's emphasis on his higher learning. Well, I've gotta tell you - while it may just be my Asperger's - I tend to feel lost around people without higher education. That is, I'm more inclined to talk about current events, history, or the like than I am about sports or fixing cars. I've come to embrace my intellectual interests, as well as my disdain for people who wantonly embrace ignorance. As Bill Maher has said on the subject, "Say it loud - I'm elite and I'm proud." So I'm not about to fault the President for essentially the same thing.

I'm not sure if there is a better word for it, but "elitist" is not a good thing to be. To be an Elitist, you embrace the notion that you are fundamentally better than others because of your breeding or your status in the community.

I've been forced into the lower segments of society, in spite of my education and efforts to be in the higher echelons of society. You know what? The "simple-minded" people aren't as stupid or ignorant as the academicians make them out to be. Cut off all the modern conveniences and see who is more adapted to survive. Talk to the "simple-minded" folk and you might be amazed at how much they do know about their "special interests"...which happen to be a lot more practical to daily living.

Elitists who complain if they don't have an air-conditioned office with a view of the courtyard to work in looking down on those who actually go out and sweat and bleed so they can have that office to work in really piss me off because in the value of who is more important, that Elitist would not exist but for that common man doing his job.

I believe I operate on a level much higher than most other people, but I've learned that I am in no way better than them because of it. Is there a word for that? I don't know.

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04 May 2011, 12:40 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

There are different sorts of elitists. There are the economic elitists, who conservatives are absolutely in love with - the Koch brothers, Dick Army, the Bush clan, etc. Then there are the elite who the right despises - the intellectual elite. I greatly admire the latter, and I group this President in with them. While these people can be rich, they can just as easily be dirt poor, living on the margins of society as writers, painters, musicians, and other artists. It's these people who the right sneers at as elitists, and encourage people in the Tea Party and the like to hold in contempt.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

aghogday
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04 May 2011, 1:19 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Humility.

Everyone learns it, if they live long enough.

There are drawbacks to all gifts. And, elite intelligence has little to nothing to do with happiness.

Some of the down to earth people are the best adjusted and the worst adjusted, but the same applies to those that operate on a "high" level.

Regarding your statement about Obama though, I doubt all A students in law school make great litigators but by the same token neither do all C students in law school.

Some of those students with lower grades end up working out of the profession. The grades can make a difference in finding a job, particularly when one goes to a less prestigious school.

Obama has a huge ego, but so do most others in politics, or any other public avenue to make a living. Most everyone bullshits to some degree to get their way in life, but successful politicians do it with the kind of grace and/or influence that leaves their constituents feeling full of enthuisiasm rather than manure.

Most politicians put on a show, if they didn't, it is not likely they would get the attention necessary to get elected.

If you can, try to think of a successful national level politician that hasn't put on a show in the last 20 years. There may be some that don't, but those, generally, are the ones people don't remember.

It's the problem with the Republican party now; the only ones that are putting on a show are Trump and Palin, and unfortunately they are not the kind of shows that will work.

Is Romney enough of a showmaker? I think we will likely find out. There's no way any other prospective canidates, at this point, have that ability, in my opinion.

Also, try to think of a politician that plays by the rules; those are the A students you were talking about in law school; not likely they would make successful politicians.

Obama is unique in that he has just the right mix that has taken him to astronomical heights in political success considering his limited political experience. And it is to his credit, not many people could have accomplished what he has accomplished so far, regardless of any of our personal views of the man.

I see the phenomenon of GW as a polar opposite, but to me he was no less amazing, as a sucessful politician, in a different kind of way, even though he would have never reached those heights. without his last name.

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04 May 2011, 1:29 pm

Of course you don't have to be an intellectual to be happy. In fact, the more you know about the world and the human condition, the less likely you're going to be happy. But my heroes have always been conflicted, depression ridden persons. Probably because that describes my late Dad to a tee.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

psychohist
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04 May 2011, 1:43 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Exactly. Having a degree may mean that you're better educated than other people, but that doesn't make you a better person than other people are.

Kraichgauer wrote:

economic elitists

You mean economic elitists like George Soros and Warren Buffet, that the left worships so much?

aghogday
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04 May 2011, 1:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Sigh.

Me too. My father was the working class, nothing could get him down, type of person; my mother is the eternal optimist regardless of circumstances. But, on the other hand my grandfather was a conflicted genius type that accomplished notable things in history, but died at a relatively young age.

For the longest time my grandfather and my rich accomplished uncle were the people I looked up to. Not too long ago, I found out my Rrch uncle was suicidal with extreme highs and extreme lows most of his life. I would have never known by external appearances.

At this, point, though, at my fathers age of 79, and my mother at age 77. I see that his and her accomplishment was a long balanced life. I have come to understand, that a balanced life, no matter how one achieves it, is an accomplishment beyond all others.

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