Why should a drug addict's babies die? ("Welfare"

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Hooked is when the person is addicted to it. 'all drugs' .. I mean the illegal kind. weed, cocaine, etc. I know there are some that get addicted to Rx medication but to get that (and welfare money to cover it) requires you to be under physician's care.



there are clinics, nonprofit organizations and religious institutions for that. Individuals also have access to friends or family IF any is available. Failing that, the person can go to the police and ask to be given information to who can help him get clean.



The reasons why people do drugs are completely irrelevant. Its their choice to do them. Just like that famous Matrix movie scene: Do you choose the blue pill or the red pill? One of them snaps you to back to reality and the other keeps you in lalaland.

Being denied welfare because they do drugs 'dooms them to suffer'? Hardly. It dooms them to not have a support system that will hold them up while they keep doing drugs. If they want to get clean they can go to the before-mentioned places that will help them get clean.

You cant really claim they have no money to get clean because drugs are expensive... they simply choose to spend their money on drugs rather than on getting clean. That is why welfare money merely perpetuates the addiction: it frees up the funds they get outside welfare so they can buy drugs with it. Remove the welfare from the picture and the individual has to choose between the red pill and the blue pill very quickly.

So if someone gets addicted to something prescribed to them they are still worthy of being considered a person basically, but if they get addicted to an illegal drug they are a disgusting freak that should be treated like crap? Also, maybe you aren't one of the people who thinks the addicts should be put into forced labor and get no help......but yeah if there are no resources for them due to no one wanting their tax money to go to it then how are they going to get help. Also it would be very stupid to go to the police for help with that, they care more about throwing someone in prison then helping them a lot of the time.

Also the reasons why someone does drugs is actually very relevent....maybe they where trying to self medicate because they where desprate to not feel so horrible. is someone like that a horrid person, or are they just someone who made a choice that was not so great and ended up addicted. Also usually if someone is addicted to something they are going to have a hard time thinking rationally.....so to just take welfare and give them the option to die out in the streets or somehow just instantly get clean does not seem like a very good policy to me.

so you think a law in itself has any right?
and as for meds, many people use them without having ever been in care, they kill many in their care as well.
to use law in itself without justifying it objectively will never be the right thing,
to show immoral behavior because of it is just as wrong as showing immoral behavior despite of it.

Nope. Rx addiction is very hard to achieve on purpose since it requires a doctor to keep prescribing it to you for no reason. People who become addicted because of a medical procedure is a completely different thing..it wasnt their choice, it was inflicted on them. Aka morphine addiction for example. Even in these cases, the addict will be denied welfare if he does not get clean within a certain time frame...all because this is all tracked by the physician.

If a person get addicted to an illegal drug then he is a criminal for buying and owning illegal substances... and should be treated as such. I dont think they're disgusting or freaks nor they should be treated like crap.. they are engaging in criminal behavior and should be treated as the law states.



Are you reading my posts? I already mentioned church programs, nonprofit organizations and clinics. I find it amazing how you seem to keep thinking that because someone is an addict they should automatically be entitled to receive resources. If someone needs help to get clean they can get that help without burdening the taxpayer's wallet.



Only if theyre stupid enough to go to the police station while carrying drugs and high. C'mon now. You can walk into any physician office, firefighter station, police station, psychologist office... clinics, hospitals, etc... and simply ASK and that information will be given to you.



so this not-horrid person that thinks is a horrible person made the choice of using illegal substances to feel better is now entitled to get free rent and food from others AND keep doing drugs?




...but they are rational enough to manage to apply for and keep receiving welfare?



Not at all. rehab programs that are non-taxpayer funded do provide assistance with living issues during the program. Thing is, that rehab and assistance is not something the individual can keep claiming forever.. those places demand the person be serious about getting clean and set expected results within a time frame. They also do not provide funds or drugs to perpetuate the habit. Those programs as far as im aware can last up to a year so its not 'instantly'.

However if the addict is simply unwilling to get clean then hey, thats his CHOICE. Another bad one too. I have no sympathy whatsoever for someone who doesn't want to face reality. Starving on the streets is a rather effective way to make him understand reality and maybe, perhaps, make him change his mind.

I made the comment earlier, it would be nice if this system were a stepping stone to getting people the treatment they need. HOWEVER, treatment only works if the person receiving it truly wants the help. Too many don't want to. Why should they? Live off the State, dope yourself up, stay numb. Who cares? Unfortunately, I've known a lot of addicts in my life. The part that truly disgusts me is the mentality that they're owed something by the world. Their lives have been so horrible they cloak themselves in their addiction and don't take responsibility for anything. Why should you or I take on that responsibility? It's BS. My life hasn't been sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows, but I man up and take care of my responsibilities. I have no tolerance for people who can't attempt to help themselves. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to help some of these f**ktards. Opened my home to them, tried to help them get straightened out, and they milked me dry till I kicked them out. Yeah, sorry. No more pity.

Addiction is weakness. Culling the weak from the herd is part of nature's process. If you choose to let a chemical dictate and ruin your life, that's your choice. Don't expect my hand out. Don't expect me to want you around me or my child. And, yes.. remember, both of my brother's are addicts and I mean them too. I'd take custody of my nephew, but my brother is on his own.

Someone has pointed out that everyone is addicted to something. Probably very true. The addicts I'm referring too are the ones who have ceased to be active, responsible members of society. They don't work. Don't want to work. Don't take a positive active role in their children's lives. Have no interest in getting sober. They're worthless.

At this point in my life, my primary responsibility is to provide for my child and raise him up to be a responsible, productive member of society. To teach him right and wrong. Though I try to teach him compassion, I'll be damned if I teach him that it's ok to be an addict and a societal leech.

Actually, this is not so true. Working in the ER, I see people who are addicted to Rx drugs all the time. It's pretty prominent here. Most of our Rx junkies are on medicaid. They're the ones who come in for migraines, dental pains (with no abscess), or "abdominal migraines".. Most of them indicate a "pain" that can't be proven. 20 and 30-something year olds who are miraculously allergic to everything but Percocet and Vicodin. 19 year olds with chronic back pain. You don't need to see a doctor to get these meds, you just have to know the right person and have the money to pay for them. It's just free if you can go to the ER and convince a doctor to give you some.

It's sad. I got a call the other night at work from a 16 year old who had smoked a perc for his first time... 16 years old. Smoked it. Had a kid last year who smoked a fentanyl patch. We almost didn't get him in time.

Don't kid yourself, it's out their and they'll get it.

You need to read my previous post and get off your moral grandstand.

Alright well I doubt I am going to agree with your opinion on this.....and I am not saying they are entitled to more then the average person with a job, I just do not think they should be treated like criminals for getting addicted, as at that point it is more of a physical/psychological problem depending on the drug. Another find I find a little ridiculous is I have never gone out and caused harm to anyone yet if I get caught with a little marijuana that's a crime...but someone can be getting drunk in a bar and that's perfectly fine.

It feels like I am in a church expressing sympathy for the devil...

at the core of this debate is how one defines an addict,
if you define an addict as a person incapable of doing anything that interferes with their drug use, the yes i think we can all agree they should have little choice in the matter of getting sober, by being restricted to a degree by state.
if you think anyone that use a drug under any circumstance is wrong in doing so, well then you are pushing your morals on others.

addiction can be debated and i think we could get somewhere but as it stands now it feels like an all or nothing debate and those are only right in the rarest of circumstances.

Really?

This looks a lot like free will to me. Only learned helplessness leads people to believe they are slaves of their immediate environment.

What if the drowning person is a Navy Seal who has done tons of drowning tests? We are creatures of habit and there is considerable inertia against changing our habits and facing the unpredictability of it, but it doesn't mean it can't be done against the odds of the environment.

Not all drug addicts or alcoholics are poor little victims. Some are just hedonistic and irresponsible a**holes. Just because someone dissents from the sacred cow of politically correct thinking, it doesn't mean they're self-righteous.

And actual science that shows that "free will" is baloney. It's a sociological concept at best. That someone can kill themselves by setting themselves on fire proves absolutely nothing.


Their lungs have physically adapted over time to hold more oxygen. That's far from a case of "mind over matter".

There is also strong evidence that some drugs permenently damage pleasure pathways in the brain so that heavy users may never experience true joy again. They are physiologically damaged. Kind of explains why many don't want to become "clean" even if they say they do. The only way to get them off is to cut off their access.


Maybe some are, but people in this thread seem to think most if not all are. Also, I never said that drug addicts or alcoholics are "victims" so stop pulling crap out of your ass.