If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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It's up to her really.

Only if the someone is a woman.

But that's completely unrelated to misogyny

Right on bro, just like being against affirmative action is completely related to being a racist and using code words to pull the wool over people's eyes

The child never asked to be placed in that situation to begin with, the time for pregnency is a temporary situation, it is completely unrelated to taking someone's internal organs.

Is the child of a felon guilty of the same crime their parents committed, under US Law they aren't.

The renal failure patient didn't ask to be in the situation, either. And the time for invasive surgery to take your kidney is a temporary situation...after that, you get to recover.

It's not about punishing a 'child' (nice tactic, referring to anything from zygote onwards as a 'child').

It's about protecting the woman's health and autonomy.

And I consider the child to be a human life and not simply an inanimate object like you seem to be.

What you are suggesting to me is quite similar to legalized murder.

No, murder is when you kill someone who has done you no wrong.

Removing something that will drastically affect your body is closer to self defence than murder.

I would advise a woman to do what she feels comfortable with.
That is why I am pro choice so women can have options.

I would say that if I were changed into a fertile woman today I would immediately abort the baby.
Actually depending on my age I'd either be sterilized or on birth control piils and with a long term intrauterine device as to have nil chances of getting pregnant.

I was tried to get sterilized at 15 and then again at 18 and 21 (being a male) but by the time the docs would agree to it I was no longer having sex anymore.

Never wanted kids of my own. Not like the human population was in danger of being wiped out so I saw no point in all the work just for the supposed emotional rewards. Which I probably would not feel anyway.

I hope to god you never get pregnant.
I am pro choice but I don't like the whole "ew foetuses are just parasites!" philosophy, I think it's just sad.
One thing I also hate is rabid feminism.

I hope I never get pregnant, either.

I don't understand your views though - why is it you are pro-choice but seem to believe fetuses should be respected?

The woman should always come first. She really is a person. She has a mind, feelings, she can appreciate what is happening to her, she has to experience the trauma. The fetus is effectively an inanimate object until late pregnancy. Why is anyone even entertaining the thought that its rights should come before hers?

In addition, you may not like the idea of fetuses as parasites, but when you are pregnant and don't want to be, that's effectively what they are. If you experience the ability to have a child as a good thing, then good for you, but other people's reality is valid too. And my reality is that I don't want a child and I put no value on a fetus that I don't want inside me.

I'm not saying anyone's rights come first, and anyone can abort a truly unwanted baby if they wish. I just don't like the way you talk about abortion in such a blasé way like it's no big deal. It's a very hard decision for a lot of women and they often feel quite down afterwards.

I fail to see how I've described it as not a big deal.

Well you certainly talk about it in such a positive light. And make dumb jokes about having better ways to spend $500.

The other reason it is not murder is that the victim is not even human.

And when it is early (and most pro-choice people are fine with only legalizing early abortions) it does not even have a brain.


Abortion is a big deal, but pregnancy is a big deal too.

You can regret abortion, you can regret not aborting.

You can die during an abortion, you can die while giving to birth.

An unwanted zygote is as close as it can be to a parasite. That's because there are few unwanted biological entities that can make your body their host that are more demanding than a fetus.

Abortion is a mess. It is because abortion can be such a mess that the best approach to unwanted pregnancy is to end it ASAP. If they want to stay pregnant then ok, be happy, have children, once the fetus is wanted, it becomes a symbiotic relationship instead of parasitic. The woman gets a heir and a children, the fetus gets life and nutrients and a host.

In a happy world of happiness and rainbows, no one would get an unwanted pregnancy, but until that world is reached, it is best for women to be able to decide to herselves what to do if that happens to them.

When complaining about people that want to mandate what women do with their own bodies seems like rabid feminism to you then I can make a conclusion about you.

The thing is that early zygotes are more animal than persons. It is perfectly clear to me that we live in a world where animal rights come third or fourth after people rights. And I am not even talking about cute animals like lambs or cows or chickens that actually seem to be able to have emotions like sadness or anger, but about protozoan beings that just get nutrients while they develop. There is no way on earth you will convince me that there is something magical in DNA that makes all things with human DNA including brainless zygotes deserve to have more rights than actual living, thinking women with feelings. The only way to accept such premise is to consider women to be second class people lower in the scale of rights than animals without mammal brains. To me, this thought is very incompatible with what I believe.

When you rant about people that make aboriton look like nothing, you are being unfair, because those responses come as a reaction from people who trivialize pregnancy as if it was just 'discomfort' and think it would be easy for the woman to disregard 9 months of her own bodily and mental health and then just give the kid to adoption. And actually believe that this is a solution

I also consider that ultimately such form of thinking is the most cruel one. These are the consequences:
* Woman , forced to screw her body and psyche up for 9 months of pregnancy.
* Fetus that is unnecessarily developed into baby only to make some few people completely unrelated to the woman or the fetus happy, will have to live a life of uncertainty. Let us hope he actually gets adopted by decent people.
* Orphans all over the world. Thanks to the tantrum of the religious right, the adoption market is even more saturated and their life is harder. Thanks !

I for one see plenty of things wrong with this. And to think this originates from people that seem to put their noses where it is not their business... You know, women that are under an unwanted pregnancy have it very hard already without people trying to force them into things.

Last edited by Vexcalibur on 06 Aug 2011, 3:41 pm, edited 6 times in total.

That wasn't me, that was another user, but I actually agree with her.

Why should we put unwanted pregnancy/abortion up on a pedestal any more than any other medical issue? If I have issues with my adrenaline levels am I obliged to only ever talk about that in a serious respectful tone, too??