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What Is Your Main Grievance with Obama's Presidency?

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Conservatives, what is your main grievance with the Obama presidency?
President Barack Obama lacks legitimacy for the office of President. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
President Obama is incompetent or lacks executive experience. 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Obama puts too much faith in government and does not understand decentralized, market-driven dynamics. 17%  17%  [ 6 ]
Obama hates the wealthy, business, and capitalism. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
He's bad for my self-interest. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
His administration is corrupt. 17%  17%  [ 6 ]
He doesn't support traditional family values. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
I'm a liberal or otherwise just checking the poll results. 50%  50%  [ 18 ]
Total votes : 36

simon_says
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11 Feb 2012, 11:25 pm

Longshanks wrote:
simon_says wrote:
The founding fathers didnt believe in a standing army. Times changed. They knew they would change and Jefferson goes on at length about his desire for future citizens not to be bound by the regulations and practices of his time.

One funny bit is that Jefferson's quote about refreshing the tree of liberty with blood is partially about rebels being ignorant. He says that it's inevitable that ignorant and misinformed elements of the country will want to rebel. He basically says let them come and we'll correct, pacify and pardon them. That a few deaths every century don't mean much and that it's a good reminder for everyone (rulers and rebels). He's not really casting these hypothetical rebels in a positive light.


I beg to defer. Some of the founding fathers did not favor a standing army. Others did. It was about evenly split. Washington advocated both a standing army and navy and, in his farewell address, admonished the nation to remember that the best way to avoid war was to be constantly prepared for it. Adams advocated the same. Jefferson disfavored it until facing a potential war with France, and then changed his mind. In fact, to my recollection, Jefferson issued a call for 13,000 troops at one time. Madison and Monroe both favored standing armies. John Hancock , Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry and Alexander Hamilton all favored standing armies as time went on.

-Longshanks


Um, the point is that views changed and the national policy changed, as they intended from the beginning. You said:

Quote:
A true conservative only wants what the founding fathers intended


As I said, Jefferson specifically said that the future should not be bound by the realities of his time. We've obviously amended the Constitution often enough. And our foreign deployments are probably a little more extensive than anything they were thinking about. We live in a different world.



Kraichgauer
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11 Feb 2012, 11:32 pm

Longshanks wrote:
CoMF wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And yet government did grow under him - as did our deficit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


According to data from the U.S. Dept of the Treasury, the increase in the national debt under Reagan was $1.77 trillion dollars. Under our current President with a Democratic supermajority in both chambers of Congress for the first two years of his term, it increased by $4.73 trillion, which is not far behind the $4.9 trillion Gee Dumble-ya added to the national debt over his two terms.

Just sayin'...

Source: FactCheck.org, "Dueling Debt Deceptions"


Okay, numbers guy. Now let's talk about the deficit on steroids that Obama's got us in with no approved budget in over 1,000 days. I suppose you'll find a lame excuse to blame the Republicans for that.


Poop happens.
And I'll also remind you, it was one of your demigods, Dick Cheney, who had famously said deficits don't matter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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11 Feb 2012, 11:42 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Again, you are monotonously selective, sir. The government grew more under the Johnson, Nixon, and Carter administrations than under Reagan. Reagan was the least of the four. Check your Congressional Quarterlies.

- Longshanks


And yet government did grow under him - as did our deficit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And the food stamp president we have does better how?


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Kraichgauer
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12 Feb 2012, 12:01 am

Longshanks wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Again, you are monotonously selective, sir. The government grew more under the Johnson, Nixon, and Carter administrations than under Reagan. Reagan was the least of the four. Check your Congressional Quarterlies.

- Longshanks


And yet government did grow under him - as did our deficit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And the food stamp president we have does better how?


Parroting a lowlife like Gingrich does nothing but decrease your own stature.
And incidentally, no president ever puts anyone on food stamps. Rather, people in need qualify for it. Not only is Gingrich distorting the truth here, but there's also an unspoken racial element to the charge, as Gingrich has associated dependance on food stamps to black Americans. As a matter of fact, there are more white people on food stamps than there are black - and there is nothing wrong with that, as providing people with food is never a bad thing.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Feb 2012, 12:05 am

Obama is just as much a hypocite as the ones you criticize. There is nothing to parrot.


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Kraichgauer
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12 Feb 2012, 12:08 am

Longshanks wrote:
Obama is just as much a hypocite as the ones you criticize. There is nothing to parrot.


If he is or not, as I've stated before, he still represents my interests and values far better than his Republican rivals do.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Feb 2012, 1:17 am

Longshanks wrote:
Okay, numbers guy. Now let's talk about the deficit on steroids that Obama's got us in with no approved budget in over 1,000 days. I suppose you'll find a lame excuse to blame the Republicans for that.


You miss the point. The purpose of those numbers was to demonstrate that the blues and the grays accusing each other for increasing the national debt to the point of our own country's ruination is like the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.