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The other side of the Trayvon Martin story...

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ruveyn
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30 Mar 2012, 5:15 pm

marshall wrote:
[

If there's evidence the person was unarmed and killed outside the house there should be a trial. A person doesn't have the right personally issue the death penalty to the perpetrator of a property crime. That isn't justice. It's an act of barbarism. Unfortunately it looks like some right wingers do think they have the right to shoot and kill people for property crimes while calling it "self defense".

I also don't think the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" is exactly the same when it's been proven that the person did if fact commit a homicide and the only question is whether it was justified under self-defense. Especially not when there's evidence the killing was not justified. Failure to even investigate trivializes life.


The claim self defense is sufficient to support the presumption of innocence. However there should be a grand-jury process taken on this case to see if there is a basis for manslaughter charges to be brought against Zimmerman. The grand-jury really must get in on this. Otherwise the matter will be "tried" in the media which are well know to be biased and erroneous.

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30 Mar 2012, 6:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
[

If there's evidence the person was unarmed and killed outside the house there should be a trial. A person doesn't have the right personally issue the death penalty to the perpetrator of a property crime. That isn't justice. It's an act of barbarism. Unfortunately it looks like some right wingers do think they have the right to shoot and kill people for property crimes while calling it "self defense".

I also don't think the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" is exactly the same when it's been proven that the person did if fact commit a homicide and the only question is whether it was justified under self-defense. Especially not when there's evidence the killing was not justified. Failure to even investigate trivializes life.


The claim self defense is sufficient to support the presumption of innocence. However there should be a grand-jury process taken on this case to see if there is a basis for manslaughter charges to be brought against Zimmerman. The grand-jury really must get in on this. Otherwise the matter will be "tried" in the media which are well know to be biased and erroneous.

ruveyn


I've become somewhat unconvinced that it actually *will* go that far, due to the way Florida law works. They've essentially put a bar on the prosecutor so high, it bares little resemblance to "probable cause" anymore.

If Zimmerman wants to claim that his actions are justified, he (and everyone else) should have to prove their claim in court. I realize it's a hardship on people who carry/own guns legally for protection, but that's just the price we pay. "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six"


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ruveyn
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30 Mar 2012, 6:51 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
I've become somewhat unconvinced that it actually *will* go that far, due to the way Florida law works. They've essentially put a bar on the prosecutor so high, it bares little resemblance to "probable cause" anymore.

If Zimmerman wants to claim that his actions are justified, he (and everyone else) should have to prove their claim in court. I realize it's a hardship on people who carry/own guns legally for protection, but that's just the price we pay. "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six"


Are you getting your information from the Main Stream Media? It is worthless.

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30 Mar 2012, 7:34 pm

This incident might not have gone to court, if it had not received the mainstream media attention that it gained. That seems fairly evident, in the direction it was headed, until it received the attention it did.

The coverage has also magnified the focus that the SYG laws in Florida require scrutiny and potential modification, to ensure that justice is not avoided as a result of the new laws.

Regardless of the laws as they are written, political influence plays a part; the boys father was a retired state supreme court justice; there is no evidence that there was political influence from the father, but in reality it happens.

Now the political and public influence is at the highest levels. The video of Zimmerman walking into the police station just hours after the incident, does not reflect someone that was seriously injured in a fight, in the manner suggested by Zimmerman's account of the fight.

Whether or not the case goes to court, it's fairly likely the law is going to be modified, if for no other reason than the video of Zimmerman walking into that police station. The immunity from prosecution provided by the new law, correctly or incorrectly by those that decided the law provided this immunity, is the obvious problem.

There is too much room for abuse of the law as it is written. Not likely that many are going to disagree with that point, after all is said and done in this incident.

If so, lives may be saved in the future, not only because of the incident, but because of public outrage from those in the public, that can discern when a law is neither fair or just, as written.



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30 Mar 2012, 8:25 pm

Well,

We have learned much about Trayvon's character or lack there of? Gold teeth, twitter posts, Facebook, and more. I would like to learn more about Zimmerman's character via the same means. In reality most likely both are neither angels. And we never know the whole truth.



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30 Mar 2012, 8:49 pm

Martin could have been flashing gang signs, dressed in baggy pants, wearing a ball cap backwards, and shouting, "YO!" at Zimmerman, and that would not have been a valid excuse to shoot him. For crying out loud, half of the boys in my lily-white high school 15 years ago thought that it was cool to pretend to be 'gangsta.' Martin had no history of aggression; Zimmerman did. THAT is the relevant history here, given that it's a case of homicide or manslaughter and not a case for the fashion police.



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30 Mar 2012, 11:08 pm

LKL wrote:
Martin could have been flashing gang signs, dressed in baggy pants, wearing a ball cap backwards, and shouting, "YO!" at Zimmerman, and that would not have been a valid excuse to shoot him. For crying out loud, half of the boys in my lily-white high school 15 years ago thought that it was cool to pretend to be 'gangsta.' Martin had no history of aggression; Zimmerman did. THAT is the relevant history here, given that it's a case of homicide or manslaughter and not a case for the fashion police.


Right. Martin is not your stereotypical ghetto thug but he did seem a little punky. But a lot of teens seem like punks and he doesnt have Zimmerman's record of violence. He also doesnt have gold teeth, that was a removable mouth piece.

And there is a new story from a co-worker of Zimmerman saying that he had a short temper, was like Jekyll and Hide, and was fired for it. He was doing security at house parties and at one point picked up a drunk woman and threw her. Said Zimmerman was a cool guy who could suddenly snap.

Not sure it matters or is even admissible. It's going to come down to who they believe.



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31 Mar 2012, 1:54 am

simon_says wrote:
LKL wrote:
Martin could have been flashing gang signs, dressed in baggy pants, wearing a ball cap backwards, and shouting, "YO!" at Zimmerman, and that would not have been a valid excuse to shoot him. For crying out loud, half of the boys in my lily-white high school 15 years ago thought that it was cool to pretend to be 'gangsta.' Martin had no history of aggression; Zimmerman did. THAT is the relevant history here, given that it's a case of homicide or manslaughter and not a case for the fashion police.


Right. Martin is not your stereotypical ghetto thug but he did seem a little punky. But a lot of teens seem like punks and he doesnt have Zimmerman's record of violence. He also doesnt have gold teeth, that was a removable mouth piece.

And there is a new story from a co-worker of Zimmerman saying that he had a short temper, was like Jekyll and Hide, and was fired for it. He was doing security at house parties and at one point picked up a drunk woman and threw her. Said Zimmerman was a cool guy who could suddenly snap.

Not sure it matters or is even admissible. It's going to come down to who they believe.


My understanding is that even his two previous arrests associated with violence would not be allowed as evidence specific to this incident.

Interesting that the investigator at the police department wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, but the state attorney's office shot it down, stating there was not enough evidence to bring charges.

Judging from the police report and the recently released video, it's not too surprising that the investigator did not agree that Zimmerman's account of the incident was acceptable to avoid a charge..



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31 Mar 2012, 9:08 am

It is Trayvon's own fault for not carrying his own gun.



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31 Mar 2012, 10:13 am

^ I in-vision the headlines already: HERO SAVES NEIGHBORHOOD FROM ARMED BLACK GUY


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31 Mar 2012, 10:35 am

or Zimmerman would be dead, Martin in jail, Martin's lawyer would be arguing self-defense, and we'd never have heard of any of it.

The right answer here would have been for ZImmerman to NOT FOLLOW the kid and freak him out, or MAYBE wear something that would have identified him as neighborhood watch, so that the kid could have more accurately assessed the situation before (possibly) reacting inappropriately. This all is such a classic example of why untrained citizens should not try to take the law into their own hands that it would be funny if it was not so tragic.


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03 Apr 2012, 5:08 am

It seems that the Zimmerman tape was selectively altered by NBC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... _blog.html

Quote:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.


Luckily for us, NBC is launching an internal investigation. Ha.

It does seem that the whole racial aspect of this incident was played up by the media. It doesn't change what happened but it's pretty disgusting how people with an agenda run with any tragedy they can.



ruveyn
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03 Apr 2012, 5:17 am

simon_says wrote:
Zimmerman's story conflicts with other accounts.

First of all, he's in someone's backyard. Secondly this says Zimmerman didnt speak to Trayvon. Trayvon's gf said she heard Zimmerman confront him, then the phone went dead.


That is why there should be a hearing to sort things out.

In the meantime the political pot will boil; In Liberal Land there is no such thing as a guilty Negro or an innocent White.

Anyone with a pale skin is automatically guilty of transporting Negro Slaves from Africa to these shores.

Even I am guilty even though my ancestors did not show up in America until the 1890's.

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03 Apr 2012, 6:18 am

Jacoby wrote:
It seems that the Zimmerman tape was selectively altered by NBC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... _blog.html

Quote:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.


Luckily for us, NBC is launching an internal investigation. Ha.

It does seem that the whole racial aspect of this incident was played up by the media. It doesn't change what happened but it's pretty disgusting how people with an agenda run with any tragedy they can.


I listened to the full 911 tape. Never heard of an NBC version.

The racial element is one of profiling, obviously. If there is more to it, the Feds may get involved. That may depend on whether he said "coon". The FBI is investigating but Ive read nothing about that aspect lately.



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04 Apr 2012, 12:27 am

I think Zimmerman's guilty as sin of murdering Martin, but honestly when I first heard the recording I though I heard, "f*****g punks."



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04 Apr 2012, 2:55 am

LKL wrote:
I think Zimmerman's guilty as sin of murdering Martin, but honestly when I first heard the recording I though I heard, "f***ing punks."


Didnt sound like that to me. Sounds like cones, goons or coons. His friend / boss says it's goons. Others have suggested it's cones and that he's having a problem with traffic cones... Beats me.