Is God Santa Claus for adults?

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Achievements in Ignorance I call it.

Who said anything about calling me a Christian? Isn't that for me to decide?

Last edited by NAKnight on 02 Dec 2012, 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Go home. Now your being unreasonable.

Both of you are failing to confront the logic that is in front of you. Atheist permits me deciding my own values. I am simply engaging the logic. I can decide whatever I want to decide under your train of thought. This discussion has gone nowhere and both of you are acting like children. If you are not willing to have an adult discussion with me I will refuse to discuss the issues with you.

You are both failing to engage my argument by calling "Non-arguments" and things of the like. You are not willing to accept that my position is valid and still willing to fight me every step of the way.

I would consider you to take a deep breath and just walk away.


Best Regards,

Jake

One final attempt to communicate with you before I go to bed:

You seem to be under the illusion that because atheists don't have a rigid belief system imposed on us by a religious text that we are free to decide anything and everything. That is not the case. We can choose our own morality and values but what we can't choose is physical reality - what makes the world tick - physics, mathematics, chemistry, biology. The most important thing to us is reality and understanding reality. Reality is what it is. It doesn't come from a religious text. If analysis of facts in the real world reveals to us that 2 + 2 = 4 then that is the value we accept. We don't just pluck a belief out of the air and say "I'll believe this today or that tomorrow" - we accept what reality shows us is the truth. We accept facts. Verifiable facts that can be repeated and demonstrated to be correct .

Right, I'm off to bed now.

One final attempt to communicate with you before I go to bed:

You seem to be under the illusion that because atheists don't have a rigid belief system imposed on us by a religious text that we are free to decide anything and everything. That is not the case. We can choose our own morality and values but what we can't choose is physical reality - what makes the world tick - physics, mathematics, chemistry, biology. The most important thing to us is reality and understanding reality. Reality is what it is. It doesn't come from a religious text. If analysis of facts in the real world reveals to us that 2 + 2 = 4 then that is the value we accept. We don't just pluck a belief out of the air and say "I'll believe this today or that tomorrow" - we accept what reality shows us is the truth. We accept facts. Verifiable facts that can be repeated and demonstrated to be correct .

Right, I'm off to bed now.[/quote]

Thank you. That's what I've been looking for!

That's what I've been looking for. Thank you. I've been trying to find out that for the whole night! This discussion came onto a full-blown assault.

Last edited by NAKnight on 02 Dec 2012, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

We will confront the logic in front of us when you put some there. Atheism permits you your own morals and personal values. It does not permit you to throw aside established mathematics because you feel like it. The discussion has gone nowhere because you refuse to abandon an irrelevant argument.

You never gave us a situation with moral considerations for us to judge our stances and defend them. You never challenged any of our personal values. All you did was ramble on about something you show a tremendous lack of understanding of while refusing to acknowledge what we explained to you. You are unwilling to admit that while your position is valid, your supporting argument isn't. Despite how easy it would have been to provide me or TallyMan with a reasonable argument relevant to the topic at hand, you insisted on spouting nonsense no matter how many times you were corrected.

Furthermore, when I so much as asked you to provide the train of logic that would lead to anyone completely abandoning the established definition of numbers, you completely ignored my question. You showed yourself either unable or unwilling to come to your own arguments defence (or even to explain your argument in full) while simultaneously accusing us of refusing to defend ours, even as we asked you to provide us with a relevant argument, or at least grounded in logic.

You took a comment that I made, and proceeded to assume that logic is the same in any context. It isn't. The same logic does not apply to herding sheep as it does to roofing ones home, two topics that are about as connected to each other as morality and mathematics. Then you insisted, despite my corrections, that you were using my logic against me.

For the final time:

Atheism does not provide a moral framework. That has nothing to do with mathematics. The two topics are not relevant to each other in any way. There is no connection between them.

Okay.

There is no need to get angry. You are getting angry over essentially nothing. Calm down.

Like I said, an Atheist logic is whatever they make it out to be. They may accept reality the way they see it fit. But it doesn't hold water on the basis of the fact that it is morally subjective. Are you for certain there is no "God" how did you arrive to the conclusion?

Jake

Last edited by NAKnight on 02 Dec 2012, 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

...what in that post seems angry? I'm simply explaining in greater detail because you seem to be incapable of understanding my point.

Your talking to me like I'm inferior to you. That's a start.

Because you've shown yourself to be incapable of understanding the point I'm making, which forces to simplify and repeat it to the point where you feel like I'm talking down to you.

Well, cool your jets and calm down your turning this into a full blown assault.
What point do you have to prove? That your right? There is no "God?"
Give yourself satisfaction that you've won again?

I don't object to you being an Atheist, your very firm in your beliefs.
I object to you calling others delusional though. You have a right to an opinion but you do not have a right to judge.
Just because I do not agree with you does not make me wrong, we can be wrong, you can be right but both of us cannnot be right.

Quite frankly, I do not know who I am personally. I'm the same in my religious beliefs as well.
I know much about myself to know that the possibility of a "Creator" is within the range of possibilities, simply because the amount of unanswered questions Science fails to prove. I also believe that there is more to this world than the "Here and now" It is to well designed to be created by chance, that is my opinion.
Calling others who don't believe delusional is bad PR for Atheist. I'm not even religious and that is harsh. Do you think your intellectually superior because you are one?

Best Regards,

Jake

You're going off on an unrelated tangent again. I'm not calling you delusional (at least not at the moment), I'm saying that you continuously misunderstood my point despite my repeated simplifications of it.

Pray tell what that should lead me to conclude?

You didn't prove any points. You were just talking. The bridge of communication was broke early in the discussion.
You talked down to me, called me delusional at one point. Not the best way to approach someone who disagrees.

Best Regards,

Jake

Good!

The communication seemed to be at an impasse, completely broken down. Everyone was getting frustrated and annoyed. It wasn't clear if the communication issue was as a result of misunderstanding or deliberate filibustering. It appears to be a misunderstanding based on different interpretation of language and metaphors. Anyway, glad to have broken through.