17 Oct 2014, 6:59 pm
17 Oct 2014, 7:15 pm
Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2014, 8:26 pm
Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
17 Oct 2014, 8:34 pm
17 Oct 2014, 10:30 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I don't see how they can say there is no danger of fraud when there clearly is, why shouldn't safeguards be in place? A few votes can influence an election. Any issue with access to IDs can solved separately pretty easily. It is a partisan issue over something that is just commonsense, that's why the vast majority of Americans support voter ID laws.
Is defending against alleged voting fraud (for which there is no proof that it's so widespread) so important as to risk disenfranchising people guilty of nothing?
Hmmmm..........
When I read things like this I'm constantly reminded of that one other civil right that the left seems so bound and deterrent to deny citizens without any supporting evidence to justify it.
I won't derail the thread over it, though.
Just sayin...
17 Oct 2014, 10:42 pm
Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
17 Oct 2014, 11:29 pm
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I don't see how they can say there is no danger of fraud when there clearly is, why shouldn't safeguards be in place? A few votes can influence an election. Any issue with access to IDs can solved separately pretty easily. It is a partisan issue over something that is just commonsense, that's why the vast majority of Americans support voter ID laws.
Is defending against alleged voting fraud (for which there is no proof that it's so widespread) so important as to risk disenfranchising people guilty of nothing?
Hmmmm..........
When I read things like this I'm constantly reminded of that one other civil right that the left seems so bound and deterrent to deny citizens without any supporting evidence to justify it.
I won't derail the thread over it, though.
Just sayin...
Other than guns, what might that be?
luanqibazao
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17 Oct 2014, 11:30 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Is defending against alleged voting fraud (for which there is no proof that it's so widespread) so important as to risk disenfranchising people guilty of nothing?
As somebody already mentioned, it's hard to prove a negative, and there is exactly enough evidence to justify suspicion. Right here in my town, a woman admitted to voting a dozen times last election. She's only known because she bragged about it. How many others did the same, but had the sense to keep their pieholes shut? Unknown. There have been some close elections; can you say with 100% certainty that such blatant fraud has never made a difference, anywhere, any time? I doubt it. Has a truly impartial organization ever tried to look into that sort of thing? Unlikely.
The last time I voted, the kid in front of me, school books in hand, presented as proof of residence a utility bill. Why not vote in his home state, where his driver's license was issued? Because that state already leaned strongly one way or another, and this was a "swing" state. College kids can choose to cast their vote wherever it counts more, a choice the rest of us lack; to the extent that they tend to vote for one party, this is manifestly unfair. Can you say with 100% certainty that this kind of rules-fudging has never made a difference in an election, anywhere, any time? I doubt it. Has a truly impartial organization ever tried to look into that sort of thing? Unlikely.
From where I stand the issue is purely partisan. If students, minorities, and the urban poor started voting Republican, you'd start calling for a standard voter ID such as nearly every other country uses, and the GOP stalwarts would start screaming "disenfranchisement!"
Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2014, 11:31 pm
Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2014, 11:37 pm
luanqibazao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Is defending against alleged voting fraud (for which there is no proof that it's so widespread) so important as to risk disenfranchising people guilty of nothing?
As somebody already mentioned, it's hard to prove a negative, and there is exactly enough evidence to justify suspicion. Right here in my town, a woman admitted to voting a dozen times last election. She's only known because she bragged about it. How many others did the same, but had the sense to keep their pieholes shut? Unknown. There have been some close elections; can you say with 100% certainty that such blatant fraud has never made a difference, anywhere, any time? I doubt it. Has a truly impartial organization ever tried to look into that sort of thing? Unlikely.
The last time I voted, the kid in front of me, school books in hand, presented as proof of residence a utility bill. Why not vote in his home state, where his driver's license was issued? Because that state already leaned strongly one way or another, and this was a "swing" state. College kids can choose to cast their vote wherever it counts more, a choice the rest of us lack; to the extent that they tend to vote for one party, this is manifestly unfair. Can you say with 100% certainty that this kind of rules-fudging has never made a difference in an election, anywhere, any time? I doubt it. Has a truly impartial organization ever tried to look into that sort of thing? Unlikely.
From where I stand the issue is purely partisan. If students, minorities, and the urban poor started voting Republican, you'd start calling for a standard voter ID such as nearly every other country uses, and the GOP stalwarts would start screaming "disenfranchisement!"
Okay, one woman voted multiple times. What evidence is there that there were others?
As for college kids - they live where they study, so why shouldn't they be be concerned about local politics?
And the only reason why minorities, the poor, and college students would start voting Republican is if that party actually represented their concerns. So far, that's unlikely, outside the odd Uncle Tom or Young Republican.
luanqibazao
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17 Oct 2014, 11:58 pm
18 Oct 2014, 12:00 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It certainly does disenfranchise people in low income areas when local licensing offices are closed, making people travel miles for said ID - making it harder if they don't have their own cars, and the office isn't open every day.
I sincerely wonder if the local licensing offices were close due to vandalism or burglary ; both very common occurrences in said low income areas. I can't blame them for closing offices that are being vandalised more than what could be considered normal.
Blaming it on poor people, now? From what I understand, no.
Wut?
Oh, so you're saying that low income areas aren't fraught with vandalism and burglary to name few crimes?
On what planet do you live?
BTW: You're missing a good pissing contest in the current events forum (it should have been started here). It's about the republican governor of S. Carolina sucking up to CEO's and marginalising minorities over the confederate flag. Make sure you start from the very beginning.
Kraichgauer
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18 Oct 2014, 12:51 am
Kraichgauer
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18 Oct 2014, 12:55 am
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It certainly does disenfranchise people in low income areas when local licensing offices are closed, making people travel miles for said ID - making it harder if they don't have their own cars, and the office isn't open every day.
I sincerely wonder if the local licensing offices were close due to vandalism or burglary ; both very common occurrences in said low income areas. I can't blame them for closing offices that are being vandalised more than what could be considered normal.
Blaming it on poor people, now? From what I understand, no.
Wut?
Oh, so you're saying that low income areas aren't fraught with vandalism and burglary to name few crimes?
On what planet do you live?
BTW: You're missing a good pissing contest in the current events forum (it should have been started here). It's about the republican governor of S. Carolina sucking up to CEO's and marginalising minorities over the confederate flag. Make sure you start from the very beginning.
I'm saying vandalism was not the reason why any licensing offices were shut down - rather, the lame excuse of budget cuts was used. As those budget cuts were only in poor areas, I have to think something smells like bullsh*t.
So you admit the governor of South Carolina is sucking up to CEO's with her Confederate flag campaign?
18 Oct 2014, 3:44 am
18 Oct 2014, 3:46 am
