Terrorist attack in France

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I can see your perspective and it's valid to a certain extent. The thing you need to consider is that Allah does not actually speak to self-declared muslims. He only speaks to prophets. As Mohammed is considered the last prophet and messenger then his message (the Al-Quran) is the "only" source of the "will of Allah". That actually leaves little or no wiggle room...

I think it's important to separate the actions of those committing violence following the literal meaning of their religious edicts from the majority of adherents who are simply muslim or christian in name only.

Fundamentalism (whether muslim or Christian) is a form of mental illness that needs education. For instance christians who believe abortion is wrong and commit violence against doctors. Catholic priests in Germany who believe Jews killed christ so supported the Nazis or christian missionaries who believed native people were pagans so justified children being locked up in missionaries and separated from their families. There's plenty of evidence.

Islam is at a crossroads. Either followers accept secular forms of society such as in the west or we are going to see escalation of young men who turn to fundemental/literal interpretation of their Quran to help them deal with their inability to integrate into western countries.

The need for education implies ignorance, not mental illness. The latter requires treatment. Which one is it?

No, the religion of submission. Of course if everyone submits to the will of Allah, there would be peace in that way.



Except starting from the time that he resided in Medina. Where he did order/asked for the killing of several opponents.

The prophet is referred to as a messenger and is actually no more venerable than other prophets in the Al-Quran (including Jesus). So I'm curious why "outraged" muslims don't froth at the mouth when there are millions of images desecrating Jesus??

Good point. The treatment in this case is education. Fundementalist christians or muslims need to transform their thinking and this can only be done by being exposed to self-evident fallacies in the bible and Al-Quran. This technique is actually used to de-program people who were members of religious cults.

You seem like a nice, reasonable person. If you find personal solace in the Al-Quran and don't subscribe to organised religion then that's fine. Self-belief or faith can actually be positive for one's motivation or personal healing.

I would, however, not read too much into the accuracy or detail of the Quran. A wiser person would use the Surahs as simple metaphors. Like children's fairy tales. It's self-evident that if i) Allah created the earth and ii) was all knowing and wise, it's pretty unlikely he/she/it would make a boo boo about their own creation. The accuracy of Quranic science is woeful.

"Muhammed, a star is born"

Hmm, well that's rather inconvenient (or convenient, depending on your point of view), because it seems likely that Mohammed will forever remain the last prophet of Allah. It's probably too hard to qualify as a prophet in the modern world. Joseph Smith had a good go at it, but that was 200 years ago and even so he has < 1% of the followers that Mohammed has.

It's a bit like suspension of disbelief.

MEH, tHere have been millions of prophets since the time of Muhammad.

A prophet is simply someone who connects to the creative mind beyond just manufactured ego.

God is an equal opportunity employer. GOD is all about the CHANCE and OPPORTUNITY to TRULY be great IN UNDERSTANDING GOD; not the promise OR ANOINTING, or whatever other tribal leaning abstract construct some little or big group of silly little humans come up with to tell folks their 'quarterback' is better than the opposing team's 'quarterback'.

Yes, OF COURSE GOD exists AS MOTHER NATURE TRUE AKA ALL THAT IS but no human RULES GOD.

And that's the truth.

And why that SIMPLE TRUTH IS so hard to understand FOR MOST PEOPLE is simply because people, in general, will believe AND ACT ON ALMOST anything other folks tell them to retain social acceptance, as an innate human tribal instinct necessary through human evolution for survival, as a social animal.

Outcasts like Jesus, if he really exists, can overcome that huge obstacle, as large, as a GOLIATH camel of desire going through the smallest hole, as needle of need imaginable.

And when 'they' do, they can connect to GOD in a deep communicative SYMBOLIC way; however, that communication can NEVER EVER BE TAKEN AS LITERAL TRUTH for anyone else; HOWEVER, others may interpret the abstract metaphorical symbolic communication in another or similar way.

IT IS ONLY TRUTH in the eye of the beholder.

Yes, GOD's TRUTH IS BEAUTY BUT ONLY BEAUTY FOR THE BEHOLDER
OF
IT.

OH AND 'hear' is two examples of GROUPS of prophets and their prophecies here, linked below.

"The words of the prophets are written on the concert hall walls" to paraphrase 'RUSH', as well.





Again, 'GOD IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER'.

Jesus and Muhammad didn't have the benefit of mass communication to both tell and record their prophecy as their own personal Truth about GOD.

All we have is 'HEAR' say, for whatever it was 'they' actually said, per initial and then traditional oral tradition, if they existed and actually said what is currently revised, written, and recorded about THAT.

One thing for sure is, the Beatles and Led Zeppelin existed and their prophecies STILL remain unadulterated on Youtube now, and perhaps as long as humans WILL TO EXIST, in the future, however that may come in NOW.

Anyway, Have a nice 'day in the life' of now.

I think the burr under my saddle has to do with the apparent acceptance of this radicalization by Muslims at all levels.

When I say at all levels I include the most holy and powerful of their belief.

The reason for this is the complicit nature they reveal through their silence/inaction. In the Roman Catholic religion (as an example) if a Bishop (for example) is accused of impropriety he is investigated and if the accusations are found true the Bishop is castigated in some form or another, often very publicly. This is also true of other organized religions.

But not in Islam. When have you heard of a murderous imam (and there seem to be many) being castigated by a superior? Where have you heard believers being told they follow a sick person and that they should not follow him?

I have never heard those things, and what's more important, neither have Muslims. This translates into a direct, if unspoken, edict: DO AS YOU WISH AND INTERPRETE THE KORAN AS YOU WISH. This is what the heads of the Islamic faith preach: Do as you will to unbelievers. Which is essentially what Muslims have always been taught. And they bomb "as they will" knowing they do nothing wrong, back by their religion's silence, And every Muslim on the street knows this.

At first I was upset at what I saw as the average Muslim's silence on the murders taking place all around the world, but now I feel this is actually how they are directed to behave by their religious leader's silence.

If one of our stalwart Muslim contributors can help me understand in a different manner please do so.

It's not accepted at all, it's just that certain conservative news channels - ahem fox ahem - tend to ignore us when we do as it doesn't fit in with the narrative they like to portray of us. If you want an article outlining this on the topic of ISIS and providing a couple of the numerous examples of muslims condemning ISIS you should check out this article.

There are many muslims however who are getting sick of the rhetoric that every time some idiot does something while claiming to be a Muslim that they should apologise as if they are responsible for it. We don't ask all Christians to apologise for the KKK or the inquisition, I don't expect all Irish people to apologise because the IRA tried to blow me up when I was four years old and neither should all muslims be expected to apologise for people who more often than not are also killing actual muslims.

I can go along with all that.

But I also ask that moderate believers everywhere speak out more loudly and more often against the violently radical elements of their own stated religions - whether Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, or Whatever.

I am not asking you to apologize for anything. Instead, I am asking you to be more vocal in your condemnations of false Islamists.

Please?

[/quote]It's not accepted at all, it's just that certain conservative news channels - ahem fox ahem - tend to ignore us when we do as it doesn't fit in with the narrative they like to portray of us. If you want an article outlining this on the topic of ISIS and providing a couple of the numerous examples of muslims condemning ISIS you should check out this article.

There are many muslims however who are getting sick of the rhetoric that every time some idiot does something while claiming to be a Muslim that they should apologise as if they are responsible for it. We don't ask all Christians to apologise for the KKK or the inquisition, I don't expect all Irish people to apologise because the IRA tried to blow me up when I was four years old and neither should all muslims be expected to apologise for people who more often than not are also killing actual muslims.[/quote]

Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry many Muslims are getting sick of us being killed and somehow feeling being held morally responsible; we are tired of being killed too. Please forgive us.

But I wasn't asking you to grieve with us. I was wondering...Where is the fatwa declared against these killers and their imams?????? Where is the declaration marking them forever as killers not attached to Islam and that they are NOT REAL MUSLIMS????

I am sure the comments you directed me to are very politically correct (as would be expected), but WHERE is the outrage against these killers for polluting your religion??? Muslims seemed primed to cast death and destruction against any that even write opinions differing with those of Muslim leaders; where are these holier-than-thou leaders when it's time to condemn one of their own???

This is why Muslims flock to war: Because by their silence Muslim leaders (not members of the local Muslim debating team you reference) show their approval.

You have in no way convinced me otherwise.

Here is a link to an article covering a fatwa issued against ISIS by British muslim leaders and another link to an article covering a fatwa by a sheik from Mauritania against ISIS.

That's not to mention the 190,000 members of the Kurdish army who are currently involved in fighting ISIS on the ground, most of whom are muslim.