Page 8 of 19 [ 303 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 19  Next

KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

18 May 2015, 9:53 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
To see how a free market works, look at India.


Good example...their economy vastly improved since 1991 when they internationalized trade and employed free-market strategies. They do however have inadequate public healthcare among other problems...they seem to have a healthy economy but the rest of the system is corrupt (federal constitutional republic).


It's not like India was getting worse pre-1991 and suddenly the tide shifted after, it's been very slow progress for many decades. I would imagine India's government is fairly weak and ineffective considering the size and population of the place versus the taxation their government is capable of receiving from the population.


The economic change in India wasn't very slow after 1991. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... labels.PNG
That's not slow progress. Look up the "economic liberalization of India". The specific changes which occurred in 1991 was a decrease in taxes, deregulation of the market, and an increase in foreign investment.
That's only the market alone, however. Much of their government is corrupt.



heavenlyabyss
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,393

19 May 2015, 4:56 am

I think there are some libertarians who come as cross as b*****s because every time they see government interference their response is f**k that s**t. The fact is governments do rely on highways and they do rely on social security.

Libertarians have some good idea but they are f*****g idiots in some respects. Alright, fine. let' get rid of government. What do you propose to take its place and why the hell are you running for president? you hypocrite?



KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 7:04 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
I think there are some libertarians who come as cross as b*****s because every time they see government interference their response is f**k that s**t. The fact is governments do rely on highways and they do rely on social security.

Libertarians have some good idea but they are f*****g idiots in some respects. Alright, fine. let' get rid of government. What do you propose to take its place and why the hell are you running for president? you hypocrite?


Libertarians don't want to get rid of government. Well, not by definition, at least. Yes, they do want to limit government involvement in the social sphere (legalizing gay marriage and pot are actually supported by most libertarians; if they're not, well then they're not libertarian and are just calling themselves that) but that doesn't mean abolishing it.
It is an umbrella term, however, and I don't know which form of libertarianism you're talking about.
A nation without government would of course be chaotic (in theory) and is an anarchist goal, though it is also the ultimate goal of communism in theory...a communist society where there is no state, no class, no money, and people don't have to work to survive. That would of course end up in chaos because less and less people would be willing to work and we need someone to pave the roads.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,160
Location: Adelaide, Australia

19 May 2015, 7:49 am

KaylamiYarne wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
To see how a free market works, look at India.


Good example...their economy vastly improved since 1991 when they internationalized trade and employed free-market strategies. They do however have inadequate public healthcare among other problems...they seem to have a healthy economy but the rest of the system is corrupt (federal constitutional republic).
Yes, India has experienced phenomenal growth and also enormous inequality and corruption.

Here's an example of the Indian free market in action;
http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0406/217/


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 8:22 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
To see how a free market works, look at India.


Good example...their economy vastly improved since 1991 when they internationalized trade and employed free-market strategies. They do however have inadequate public healthcare among other problems...they seem to have a healthy economy but the rest of the system is corrupt (federal constitutional republic).
Yes, India has experienced phenomenal growth and also enormous inequality and corruption.

Here's an example of the Indian free market in action;
http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0406/217/


Corruption of the India government in action, more like.
Free market isn't end all, be all. It addresses one part of a country, and that's the market.
Picking a random country and blaming all the problems on a free market when every other part of the government is broken is ludicrous.
"We have only five ration cards altogether. The ration shop dealer never opens his shop regularly. It is open only one or two days in a week and that too during evening hours. We work in a kiln about 10 kilometers away. By the time we finish our work and return, the shop is closed. The food grains that are to be supplied for a very low price are also sold at a higher price. We are not able to afford such high prices. We know it is illegal. But we cannot complain. The ones who dare to complain will never live to see the result of the complaints. The police, health officer and district administration officers are all teamed against us. Who cares for us?"
Yeah; that's called f***ed up authority.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,241
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

19 May 2015, 9:54 am

KaylamiYarne wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
To see how a free market works, look at India.


Good example...their economy vastly improved since 1991 when they internationalized trade and employed free-market strategies. They do however have inadequate public healthcare among other problems...they seem to have a healthy economy but the rest of the system is corrupt (federal constitutional republic).
Yes, India has experienced phenomenal growth and also enormous inequality and corruption.

Here's an example of the Indian free market in action;
http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0406/217/


Corruption of the India government in action, more like.
Free market isn't end all, be all. It addresses one part of a country, and that's the market.
Picking a random country and blaming all the problems on a free market when every other part of the government is broken is ludicrous.
"We have only five ration cards altogether. The ration shop dealer never opens his shop regularly. It is open only one or two days in a week and that too during evening hours. We work in a kiln about 10 kilometers away. By the time we finish our work and return, the shop is closed. The food grains that are to be supplied for a very low price are also sold at a higher price. We are not able to afford such high prices. We know it is illegal. But we cannot complain. The ones who dare to complain will never live to see the result of the complaints. The police, health officer and district administration officers are all teamed against us. Who cares for us?"
Yeah; that's called f***ed up authority.


The thing is, though, it's conservative libertarian Republicans like Fox' John Stossel, and his ilk, who will always say that the free market will in time cure all corruption and social inequities. I hear the John Stossel's of the world bloviating about a pie-in-the-sky utopia where the free market rules, but rarely if ever do I hear libertarians with common sense in the media challenging those fantasies.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 10:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
To see how a free market works, look at India.


Good example...their economy vastly improved since 1991 when they internationalized trade and employed free-market strategies. They do however have inadequate public healthcare among other problems...they seem to have a healthy economy but the rest of the system is corrupt (federal constitutional republic).
Yes, India has experienced phenomenal growth and also enormous inequality and corruption.

Here's an example of the Indian free market in action;
http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0406/217/


Corruption of the India government in action, more like.
Free market isn't end all, be all. It addresses one part of a country, and that's the market.
Picking a random country and blaming all the problems on a free market when every other part of the government is broken is ludicrous.
"We have only five ration cards altogether. The ration shop dealer never opens his shop regularly. It is open only one or two days in a week and that too during evening hours. We work in a kiln about 10 kilometers away. By the time we finish our work and return, the shop is closed. The food grains that are to be supplied for a very low price are also sold at a higher price. We are not able to afford such high prices. We know it is illegal. But we cannot complain. The ones who dare to complain will never live to see the result of the complaints. The police, health officer and district administration officers are all teamed against us. Who cares for us?"
Yeah; that's called f***ed up authority.


The thing is, though, it's conservative libertarian Republicans like Fox' John Stossel, and his ilk, who will always say that the free market will in time cure all corruption and social inequities. I hear the John Stossel's of the world bloviating about a pie-in-the-sky utopia where the free market rules, but rarely if ever do I hear libertarians with common sense in the media challenging those fantasies.


And that's the reason I hate Fox News and most politicians; big abstract fantasies with little attention to detail. There is no cure-all for corruption and social inequities. When can we have an honest politician? But of course, "honest politician" is something of an oxymoron, just as "transparent government" is.
Media and common sense just don't go together...and that's unfortunate, because that's where so many people get their information and it's perpetrated with pseudoscience and misinformation (and wacky politic-preachers like John Stossel)



luan78zao
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2014
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 490
Location: Under a cat

19 May 2015, 11:31 am

The thing is, though, it's statist authoritarian Democrats like Elizabeth Warren, and her ilk, who will always say that government compulsion will in time cure all corruption and social inequities. I hear the Barack Obamas of the world bloviating about a pie-in-the-sky utopia in which they wield absolute power, but rarely if ever do I hear anybody with common sense in the mainstream media challenging those fantasies.


_________________
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission – which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." – Ayn Rand


KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 12:02 pm

luan78zao wrote:
The thing is, though, it's statist authoritarian Democrats like Elizabeth Warren, and her ilk, who will always say that government compulsion will in time cure all corruption and social inequities. I hear the Barack Obamas of the world bloviating about a pie-in-the-sky utopia in which they wield absolute power, but rarely if ever do I hear anybody with common sense in the mainstream media challenging those fantasies.


Exactly!



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,241
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

19 May 2015, 12:14 pm

luan78zao wrote:
The thing is, though, it's statist authoritarian Democrats like Elizabeth Warren, and her ilk, who will always say that government compulsion will in time cure all corruption and social inequities. I hear the Barack Obamas of the world bloviating about a pie-in-the-sky utopia in which they wield absolute power, but rarely if ever do I hear anybody with common sense in the mainstream media challenging those fantasies.


Government compulsion certainly was necessary with ending segregation, enforcing labor laws, and now might be called into action again with LGBT rights. And how is ending corruption possible without the power of the law to enforce it? Seems to me Warren and Obama are right. And when did the President ever want absolute power?


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 1:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
luan78zao wrote:
The thing is, though, it's statist authoritarian Democrats like Elizabeth Warren, and her ilk, who will always say that government compulsion will in time cure all corruption and social inequities. I hear the Barack Obamas of the world bloviating about a pie-in-the-sky utopia in which they wield absolute power, but rarely if ever do I hear anybody with common sense in the mainstream media challenging those fantasies.


Government compulsion certainly was necessary with ending segregation, enforcing labor laws, and now might be called into action again with LGBT rights. And how is ending corruption possible without the power of the law to enforce it? Seems to me Warren and Obama are right. And when did the President ever want absolute power?


Of course we need government. I don't think anyone here is saying we don't.



KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 1:41 pm

The amount of government dependency is increasing as more and more people are leaving their jobs because they can depend on a welfare check. There are also more people attempting to qualify for disability so they don't have to work anymore and parents are using their children's learning disorders as well for benefits.
We're in enough debt as it is. People need to get off their asses. I'm all for healthcare for those who need it, but many don't. This is why America has become a symbol of laziness and greed for many.



The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,878
Location: London

19 May 2015, 5:41 pm

KaylamiYarne wrote:
The amount of government dependency is increasing as more and more people are leaving their jobs because they can depend on a welfare check. There are also more people attempting to qualify for disability so they don't have to work anymore and parents are using their children's learning disorders as well for benefits.
We're in enough debt as it is. People need to get off their asses. I'm all for healthcare for those who need it, but many don't. This is why America has become a symbol of laziness and greed for many.

Could you please provide sources for these claims?



AspieUtah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Brigham City, Utah

19 May 2015, 5:48 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
The amount of government dependency is increasing as more and more people are leaving their jobs because they can depend on a welfare check. There are also more people attempting to qualify for disability so they don't have to work anymore and parents are using their children's learning disorders as well for benefits.
We're in enough debt as it is. People need to get off their asses. I'm all for healthcare for those who need it, but many don't. This is why America has become a symbol of laziness and greed for many.

Could you please provide sources for these claims?

Well, one big reason for workers shifting into joblessness and the resulting government-assistance programs is Obamacare itself ( http://www.businessinsider.com/obamacar ... ers-2013-9 ).


_________________
Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)


KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 6:10 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
The amount of government dependency is increasing as more and more people are leaving their jobs because they can depend on a welfare check. There are also more people attempting to qualify for disability so they don't have to work anymore and parents are using their children's learning disorders as well for benefits.
We're in enough debt as it is. People need to get off their asses. I'm all for healthcare for those who need it, but many don't. This is why America has become a symbol of laziness and greed for many.

Could you please provide sources for these claims?



http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/ ... in-america

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/ ... ve-to-work



KaylamiYarne
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 May 2015
Posts: 204

19 May 2015, 6:21 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
The amount of government dependency is increasing as more and more people are leaving their jobs because they can depend on a welfare check. There are also more people attempting to qualify for disability so they don't have to work anymore and parents are using their children's learning disorders as well for benefits.
We're in enough debt as it is. People need to get off their asses. I'm all for healthcare for those who need it, but many don't. This is why America has become a symbol of laziness and greed for many.

Could you please provide sources for these claims?

Well, one big reason for workers shifting into joblessness and the resulting government-assistance programs is Obamacare itself ( http://www.businessinsider.com/obamacar ... ers-2013-9 ).


Good article, AspieUtah