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Fnord
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31 Jul 2008, 7:26 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Judith wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Judith,

I bow to your superior wisdom. - :hail: - We are unworthy.

-Fnord

ROFLMAO!! !! !

gawd, Judith, you pwnd the whole thread! :wink:

Merle

Yeah, she's so smart that it makes me want to take up Telnet gaming again.


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31 Jul 2008, 8:58 pm

Well, Judith, I wish you had sent several posts! I just got back from my 60th birthday party getaway.

Judith wrote:
OK, so your first assumption is that their "god" is the "good of humanity." Your second assumption is that their moral code is based upon the first assumption. Your third assumption is that they are atheists, which contradicts your first assumption. Your fourth assumption is that they are all evolutionists. And your fifth assumption is that they are all always actively on the defensive against other people.

I have a couple of questions here. Do you also believe that one can accept the Theory of Evolution and not be an atheist or an agnostic? How do you define "genesis evolution theory?" And if this extreme left is displeasing to God, then wouldn't the extreme right be just as unacceptable?
Now now, I called "Humanity" their Highest Object of Devotion. This is the wording the United States Supreme Court used when they determined Secular Humanism to be a religion. (Torcaso vs. Watkins) Your fifth assumption is a little off track. They determine that the best defense is an offense, like what a couple of people out here are doing to my posts.

You ask about "evolution," eh? All the word means is slow changes. The evolution everyone agrees with is that geology shows there were plants & animals that are no longer here, replaced by other plants & animals. When the ACLU defends "evolution", this is the definition they run to. For more info on "evolution," see:
humanism-vs-christ
Judith wrote:
Vague moral code: That generally means seeing that the world has moral grey areas, rather than seeing everything in just black and white. OK. Let's consider that with a personal viewpoint. I do not believe we should legislate the pro-life agenda. Instead, I believe that we should educate fully about the pros and cons of all the birth control methods, sterilization methods, and abortion methods in our sex ed classes in high school. All the dangers. All the side effects. Legislatively, I am pro-choice. Personally, I am pro-life. I believe that having an abortion would be wrong, but I can understand and willingly comfort someone who has had to make the hard choice to have one. I am a Christian who acknowledges that the world can sometimes be grey.
Allow me to change the paradigm a little. Proverbs 3:5 says "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding." We are supposed to be led by the Holy Spirit who, it is promised, will lead us into all truth. If you have any questions as to how to 'flesh out' the two greatest commandments and the Great Commission, we need only turn to the Holy Spirit for guidance. Satan's great mistake was to want to live independently of God. Jesus on the other hand said that apart from the Father's guidance he did nothing. Who should we as Christians follow?

With the Humanists, they don't have any outside guidance to resort to. They have to follow Satan's example of arbitrarily deciding for themselves what is right or wrong.

Judith wrote:
I have to argue with you about Hitler and Stalin. Hitler did not believe he was doing his best for the human race. He was a megalomaniac who had dreams of ruling an empire inhabited by tall, blond, blue-eyed, "Aryan" robots catering to his every whim. He had his own good in mind. If he had even had the good of Germany in mind, he would not have bankrupted the country and decimated its population with his insane tactics. Hitler had his own good in mind, not anyone else's. Stalin was much the same. He was poorly educated and extremely insecure when he came into power in a huge empire he had no idea how to run. His plan? Kill everyone he even THOUGHT might oppose him. He didn't have the good of the USSR in mind, just the consolidation of power under HIM.

Ethnic cleansing is never considered to be about the "good of humanity." It is always about the "good of our people." I grew up in a clannish region of the US, and I understand the concept of "our people," but I strongly disapprove of it. Christ didn't come to save the white people, the black people, the oriental people, the red people, the Smiths, the Joneses, the Al-Imans, or any other "our people" group. He came to save the WHOLE world, which sounds a LOT more like humanism than either Stalin or Hitler to me.
You must be familiar with the study of Eugenics. It shows there are racial differences between peas, cows, dogs and people. Hitler was creating a stronger human race for the good of humanity -- or so he thought. It's all over in his writings and speeches. Stalin was creating a new world order for the good of Humanity -- or so he thought. Stalin & Hitler were the best of friends and shared concentration camp techniques with each other. He just forgot to ask his buddy Hitler if he considered Slavs to be an inferior race ....

The Humanist World Health Organization has been using poisoned vaccines in Africa to kill or sterilize Blacks. The Nigerian president came to America clandestinely and got evidence over the phone that he played over the radio stations in Nigeria. This is SO politically incorrect that you won't hear it from the American media.
Judith wrote:
Consider the megachurches, with memberships in the tens of thousands. How in the world can any minister even begin to shepherd a flock that size? There is just NO WAY. But I bet you'd consider those to be just fine. Myself, I'd say they weren't worth zip any more than any other organization or cause that didn't value the human being. After all, aren't we created in the image of God?
The only way a megachurch can exist is to have small groups where Christians are followed up, discipled, encouraged, comforted and corrected if necessary. Without the small groups, the whole thing would blow away in weeks. Psalm 1 says blessed is the man (and woman) who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the way with sinners nor sits with scoffers." Please check out the brethren for yourself before gossiping about them.

Judith wrote:
As for Bill Clinton, yes, he promoted feminist causes. But consensual sex is not rape, last time I checked. When did he ever get convicted of rape? I know he's been convicted of adultery more than once. Not the best of recommendations, but definitely not the same category as rape. None of us are perfect.

There were other women who came forward besides Lewinski who WERE raped. But it was so politically incorrect they were shuffled aside. Their lives were at risk if they pursued the matter. If Hillary doesn't end up president (with a judicious use of hot lead), there will be all sorts of people that may come forward against them.

Judith wrote:
My ASH has pretty much given up on religion entirely. He doesn't "sense" anything outside himself, so it seems pretty pointless to him. What did you drink? I brew mead, but don't drink much. My biological father is a recovering alcoholic, so I don't want to encourage the risk factors. Most of the mead gets given as gifts.
I was drinking Bacardi 151 and Coke -- on the job.

As for "religion," if Ash understands that the promises of God are for real today and to give them a try, that might interest him. The liberal social gospel would not interest him, I'm sure. John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist denomination, had a lot of behaviors that sound Aspergian. Maybe that's why there were all those split-offs; normals couldn't do it!



sinsboldly
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31 Jul 2008, 10:07 pm

Judith wrote:
As for Bill Clinton, yes, he promoted feminist causes. But consensual sex is not rape, last time I checked. When did he ever get convicted of rape? I know he's been convicted of adultery more than once. Not the best of recommendations, but definitely not the same category as rape. None of us are perfect.


TimT wrote:
There were other women who came forward besides Lewinski who WERE raped. But it was so politically incorrect they were shuffled aside. Their lives were at risk if they pursued the matter. If Hillary doesn't end up president (with a judicious use of hot lead), there will be all sorts of people that may come forward against them


ah, so you have the names of the women ( assume they were women, unless you are also accusing Bill Clinton might go for boys, or men, too) that have come forward accusing Bill Clinton of rape? I mean, you have proof this happened? this is not just something you heard from someone and it somehow got stuck in your mind as a fact, when in fact you have no fact. . just hearsay?

Look, I don't give a hoot about Bill Clinton's honor. . .I just am not interested in someone just running their mouth.

Show me your proof, it will be easy enough to do, right? If it's a fact.

Merle


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01 Aug 2008, 2:18 am

I belive in it, but I am not sure If I am getting mixed up whith some psychic ability I might have, I used to have a coin that if I thought of something positive, it came up heads, but if negative then tails. I thought it was amazing, I have also seen a my spirit guide and consult it for things, I tell you, it is amazing. I heard of them and tried to figure it out duewing meditation, the closest I had got was something like the leopard, but I was not sure, but one time close to christmas I found it. It was the most amazing feeling I have ever had, out of no where in my mind came the black panther, seeing it like that made me think that somethings must be true. Since then I have found that the panther fits perfectly to me, I wear black, but not in a depressed state, I am a quite intuitive.

I have still do draw power from dark magick, I have felt that energy and since I have I for some reason do not fear it. Some relegions don't like this as they think only God should have higher power, but it feels like I am drawn to it, kind of like I am ment to weild it. Don't knock it, it is real, I have felt it, and I am sure that I have used it, but I have learnt that it is not good mess with this power as things happen for a reason. I whent through a phaze that I enjoyed manipulating things and was addicted to dark energy/magic, and I have enjoyed some things too much. My fear is that despite being a good person, is that this naturel tendency for this energy may mean that I am infact quite evil. I am not schizophrenic, but I have had times where I have considerd my self some kind of master of dark, almost like a split personality, or is it my real personality like a past life.

I belive it is real but it kind of feels dangerous.


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monty
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01 Aug 2008, 8:42 am

TimT wrote:
Proverbs 3:5 says "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding." We are supposed to be led by the Holy Spirit who, it is promised, will lead us into all truth. If you have any questions as to how to 'flesh out' the two greatest commandments and the Great Commission, we need only turn to the Holy Spirit for guidance.


I was tangled up in Evangelical Christianity when young, and I can tell you for a fact that the 'Holy Spirit' according to their understanding is merely a feeling - emotion without substance in fact. I can give plenty of personal examples, and anyone can see this in the millions of Evangelicals that are convinced that the Holy Spirit is telling them to support a particular church, affiliate with a particular pastor, and it is later shown those persons or organizations are complete frauds. If the Holy Spirit has led me to truth, it is that my rationality should not be disconnected, as Christians like yourself propose.



TimT
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01 Aug 2008, 12:28 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
ah, so you have the names of the women ( assume they were women, unless you are also accusing Bill Clinton might go for boys, or men, too) that have come forward accusing Bill Clinton of rape? I mean, you have proof this happened? this is not just something you heard from someone and it somehow got stuck in your mind as a fact, when in fact you have no fact. . just hearsay?
Ten seconds after I read this I had information on Juanita Broaddrick who was one of the women. All I had to do was yahoo search "clinton rape." Maybe you were too young to know about that. The liberal media certainly didn't go out of their way to keep the public informed. The liberal teachers certainly wouldn't commit blasphemy against the Clintons.



sinsboldly
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01 Aug 2008, 12:43 pm

TimT wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
ah, so you have the names of the women ( assume they were women, unless you are also accusing Bill Clinton might go for boys, or men, too) that have come forward accusing Bill Clinton of rape? I mean, you have proof this happened? this is not just something you heard from someone and it somehow got stuck in your mind as a fact, when in fact you have no fact. . just hearsay?
Ten seconds after I read this I had information on Juanita Broaddrick who was one of the women. All I had to do was yahoo search "clinton rape." Maybe you were too young to know about that. The liberal media certainly didn't go out of their way to keep the public informed. The liberal teachers certainly wouldn't commit blasphemy against the Clintons.


I see your M.O. is to talk down to people younger than you, but I am only three years younger, buster, so back off the reverse ageism.

"She recanted her earlier sworn statement when interviewed by the FBI about the Jones case; the FBI found her account inconclusive, and the affidavit denying the allegations remains her only sworn testimony. "

I hold sexual assault as especially heinous, and if the lady did not wish to drag herself through the courts, I can certainly see her point.

But that does not make Clinton a rapist.

Merle


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TimT
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01 Aug 2008, 12:43 pm

monty wrote:
TimT wrote:
Proverbs 3:5 says "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding." We are supposed to be led by the Holy Spirit who, it is promised, will lead us into all truth. If you have any questions as to how to 'flesh out' the two greatest commandments and the Great Commission, we need only turn to the Holy Spirit for guidance.


I was tangled up in Evangelical Christianity when young, and I can tell you for a fact that the 'Holy Spirit' according to their understanding is merely a feeling - emotion without substance in fact. I can give plenty of personal examples, and anyone can see this in the millions of Evangelicals that are convinced that the Holy Spirit is telling them to support a particular church, affiliate with a particular pastor, and it is later shown those persons or organizations are complete frauds. If the Holy Spirit has led me to truth, it is that my rationality should not be disconnected, as Christians like yourself propose.
Jesus said "If anyone causes one of these (my) little ones to fall away, it would be better to have a mill stone tied around their necks and be cast into the sea." I'm sorry you were lied to like that. I really am.

If you would be willing to give us a second chance, I would recommend:
"How To Listen to God" by Charles Stanley
"Hearing God's Voice" by Henry Blackaby
"Hearing God" by Dallas Willard
"Finding God's Will in Spiritually Deceptive Times" by Neil Anderson

My track record on guidance from the Holy Spirit is amazing. He told me how to invest my money. When it got high enough, He told me to quit my job. I've been living on God's investments ever since. That was over six years ago.



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01 Aug 2008, 12:49 pm

monty wrote:
I was tangled up in Evangelical Christianity when young, and I can tell you for a fact that the 'Holy Spirit' according to their understanding is merely a feeling - emotion without substance in fact.

Me too. The teachers told me that if it filled me with "a Warm glow" then it was from God, but if it filled me with "a Cold Bitterness" then it was from Satan.

Strange ... when I tried marijuana, it gave me the warmest glow I'd ever had, but every cold beer I've ever had tastes bitter. Does this mean that using illegal drugs is a Godly act, while beer drinking is a Devilish act? Inquiring minds want to know. :wink:

monty wrote:
I can give plenty of personal examples, and anyone can see this in the millions of Evangelicals that are convinced that the Holy Spirit is telling them to support a particular church, affiliate with a particular pastor, and it is later shown those persons or organizations are complete frauds.

Perhaps not all of them are complete frauds; but, yeah, I know what you mean.

monty wrote:
If the Holy Spirit has led me to truth, it is that my rationality should not be disconnected, as Christians like yourself propose.

You will be assimilated into the Body, where your biological and intellectual distinctiveness will be added while the uniqueness of your personality will be suppressed in order to achieve perfection for all.

Resistance is futile.


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01 Aug 2008, 12:53 pm

TimT wrote:
VesicaPisces wrote:
Any thoughts, stories, opinions, conjectures, on the subject?
Yeah, I'm very familiar with it. I could probably write a book on the subject. I've had contact with real witches three times.



sounds like at least 4 people need to grow up and stop playing pretend.



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01 Aug 2008, 2:03 pm

TimT wrote:
The Humanist World Health Organization has been using poisoned vaccines in Africa to kill or sterilize Blacks. The Nigerian president came to America clandestinely and got evidence over the phone that he played over the radio stations in Nigeria. This is SO politically incorrect that you won't hear it from the American media.


Oh, you mean the panic over polio vaccines in Nigeria that this article talks about: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3222773.stm ?? Yeah, those rumors were started by paranoid, superstitious Islamic clerics, and the President of Nigeria actually rebutted them according to this: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_k ... kepm334887



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01 Aug 2008, 2:24 pm

TimT wrote:
With the Humanists, they don't have any outside guidance to resort to. They have to follow Satan's example of arbitrarily deciding for themselves what is right or wrong.


So free will—and the acceptance of its consequences, good or bad—is contrary to the wishes of the god you follow? I'd say that describes the mentality of most of the oppressive, domineering cult leaders I've ever heard of, too.

TimT wrote:
The Humanist World Health Organization has been using poisoned vaccines in Africa to kill or sterilize Blacks. The Nigerian president came to America clandestinely and got evidence over the phone that he played over the radio stations in Nigeria. This is SO politically incorrect that you won't hear it from the American media.


So now we're into conspiracy theories? How sad.

"TimT wrote:
As for "religion," if Ash understands that the promises of God are for real today and to give them a try, that might interest him. The liberal social gospel would not interest him, I'm sure. John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist denomination, had a lot of behaviors that sound Aspergian. Maybe that's why there were all those split-offs; normals couldn't do it!


I'm guessing that ASH probably stands for Aspergers Syndrome Husband.

And what makes you think you can judge or analyze accurately anything of what a total stranger will believe or resonate to? You don't know this person, or what he thinks. If you claim to know him by type, then I'd say you're making huge generalizations. If you claim divine inspiration—which wouldn't surprise me just for gee whiz—then I'd advise being prepared to have that looked at very skeptically. Above all, don't assume that what's good for you is what's good for anyone else.


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01 Aug 2008, 2:32 pm

monty wrote:
TimT wrote:
The Humanist World Health Organization has been using poisoned vaccines in Africa to kill or sterilize Blacks. The Nigerian president came to America clandestinely and got evidence over the phone that he played over the radio stations in Nigeria. This is SO politically incorrect that you won't hear it from the American media.


Oh, you mean the panic over polio vaccines in Nigeria that this article talks about: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3222773.stm ?? Yeah, those rumors were started by paranoid, superstitious Islamic clerics, and the President of Nigeria actually rebutted them according to this: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_k ... kepm334887


Thank you, Monty. I wished I'd thought of looking that up, myself. Getting the facts always helps, and it's always worth the effort. Bravo!


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Fnord
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01 Aug 2008, 2:42 pm

Koldune wrote:
Thank you, Monty. I wished I'd thought of looking that up, myself. Getting the facts always helps, and it's always worth the effort. Bravo!

Why is it that the words "Have Faith" are usually spoken by people who don't want you to make your own informed decisions?

Why is it that the words "Keep an Open Mind" are usually spoken by people who want to do your thinking for you?


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01 Aug 2008, 4:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
TimT wrote:
I am sure this flummoxes you, since your world view doesn't have room for any spiritual realm or spirit beings. Your loss.

More assumptions and lies from the Apostle TimT.

Actually, my universal view does have room for such realms and beings, although neither of them have been demonstrated to actually exist.

Are you a typical Christian? I hope not. I'd be very disappointed to find out that every light and salt of the Earth is nothing more than a presumptuous, self-righteous, character assassin who has nothing better to do than bear false witness against others while wearing a shining raiment that resembles most closely the whitening of a sepulcher.


I DO hope you realize Fnord that the energy requirements for the existance of places like Heaven and Hell are Far beyond the amount of energy in the entire UNIVERSE, and they flagrantly violate the tried and tested principles of thermodynamics! The same can be said for the existance of such "spiritual beings" as described by TimT. At least UFOs dont involve anything supernatural :lol: .



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01 Aug 2008, 4:47 pm

Well, the string theory seems to give room for parallel universes and other dimensions, so, probably ideas like Heaven and Hell could be related to such, which I wonder, not necessarily spiritual but something for us to be unable to fully understand yet?


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