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Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe God exists?
1) God is a being, that one can have a personal relationship. A person God. 30%  30%  [ 55 ]
2) God is an impersonal force that guides reality as it is. He decrees our laws of physics, but does not intervene to break them. 12%  12%  [ 22 ]
3) God does not exist. Reality can be explained by scientific inquiry and the scientific method in by itself. 33%  33%  [ 61 ]
4) I am not sure. There is the possibility that God does exist, or does not. We must follow the preponderance of evidence when drawing our conclusion. 26%  26%  [ 48 ]
Total votes : 186

Edenthiel
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06 Mar 2016, 6:00 pm

NoahYates wrote:
He is simply giving an education the etymology of thee word faith. You can take it or leave it. I find that many skeptics, agnostics, and atheists like to re-write definitions.


As do Christians. Which means that objection is not a valid way of determining which is correct.

100 years ago the Baltimore Catechism stated the definition of Faith as, “[T]he virtue by which we firmly believe all the truths God has revealed, on the word of God revealing them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived.”

But now the official Catechism is this: “[B]oth a gift of God and a human act by which the believer gives personal adherence to God who invites his response, and freely assents to the whole truth that God has revealed. It is this revelation of God which the Church proposes for our belief, and which we profess in the Creed, celebrate in the sacraments, live by right conduct that fulfills the twofold commandment of charity (as specified in the ten commandments), and respond to in our prayers of faith. Faith is both a theological virtue given by God as grace, and an obligation which flows from the first Commandment of God.”

...I notice that in neither though does physical "evidence" or "proof" based on the physical world play any part whatsoever.


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06 Mar 2016, 6:04 pm

Alright, time for an early 90s British Euro pop music break:


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06 Mar 2016, 6:14 pm

Do you have faith that your faculties are reliable? Do you have faith in the reality of the external world? What about the reality of the past?


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


Last edited by NoahYates on 06 Mar 2016, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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06 Mar 2016, 6:15 pm


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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06 Mar 2016, 6:17 pm

NoahYates wrote:
Do you have faith that your faculties are reliable? Do you have faith in the reality of the external world? What about the reality of the past?

I have a level of faith in all these things except my faculties. That prove to be a mistake sometimes as clumsy as I can be. :P


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06 Mar 2016, 6:23 pm


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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06 Mar 2016, 6:25 pm

"Let those who have ears hear."

Love and prayers

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06 Mar 2016, 10:48 pm

NoahYates wrote:
Do you have faith that your faculties are reliable? Do you have faith in the reality of the external world? What about the reality of the past?


If you were asking me, well, I have auditory processing disorder(s) and astigmatism. On top of that, I've got all the usual sensory issues so many of us have. And other neural atypical traits, some of which very much alter my perception of the world around me. So I have very little acceptance that the world is as I personally perceive it - I've been proven wrong too many times by cold, hard evidence. Insofar as the past goes, memory and history have also both been proven to be wildly inaccurate. See, in looking for that kind of truth, testing is the prime way to verify it. Predictions are made based on what one currently thinks is true, and then the prediction is intentionally tested. One's assumptions then are either confirmed, or more likely must be altered to fit what was actually found.


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06 Mar 2016, 10:56 pm

drlaugh wrote:
"Let those who have ears hear."

Love and prayers

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Yay! Someone else finally quoting Scripture!

Thank you. :) :heart:


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06 Mar 2016, 11:04 pm

NoahYates wrote:

Thanks for sharing. I found this to be insightful and convicting of my own heart as well.

I run too often from arguing. Well, arguing according to the Holy Spirit. There's a right place and time for debates. And it should be done with a heart of love and not because we want to "win" or look good.

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:2


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06 Mar 2016, 11:37 pm

No, I do not. Personally.


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07 Mar 2016, 6:48 am

I am not sure if someone has come up with this argument before, but I think this is the main reason why I believe in God.

- The fundamental laws of physics indicates that only a reaction can be caused by a causing agent. This is a pivotal law of physics known as the Causality Principle. For instance a electroscope cannot have its fork pull away from another without a spectrum higher or greater then UV. There must be a causing agent. You can also not travel in time in a retrograde manner. (Though lim f(x)-> c, lets you go faster in ST.)

- We know that any breach of the laws of physics is impossible, because laws of nature cannot be broken by their very definition.

- Yet, we know that the laws of physics have been breached in the past. We know this to be true, because we exist today.

- Any thing that manages to act in its very own agency against the law of nature is known as a 'supernatural' event or agent.

- Any action that acted as a supernatural phenomenon, as breaking the laws of nature, is consequently, supernatural.

- God is supernatural, or at least, adheres to the definition of supernatural.

- Therefore, logically, God exists, as the definition of God can extend to the notion of the supernatural.


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07 Mar 2016, 7:22 am

Your argument is very analogous to the contingency argument. Basically, we know that the universe is in process, and this process had to have been initialized.



The series continues with 3 additional videos as well.. i dont feel like blowing up the page with too many links. :-)


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


Last edited by NoahYates on 07 Mar 2016, 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Mar 2016, 7:47 am

Also... there is the second singularity, for which the same argument can be sketched. That second singularity is of course the DNA/r-RNA molecule.
I really like this guy's video series explaining that concept (although he is also a layman, we laymen can share ideas adequately and even come up with some of our own sometimes. :wink: ) I definitely recommend a look. Mind Blowing


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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07 Mar 2016, 3:16 pm

Deltaville wrote:
I am not sure if someone has come up with this argument before, but I think this is the main reason why I believe in God.

- The fundamental laws of physics indicates that only a reaction can be caused by a causing agent. This is a pivotal law of physics known as the Causality Principle. For instance a electroscope cannot have its fork pull away from another without a spectrum higher or greater then UV. There must be a causing agent. You can also not travel in time in a retrograde manner. (Though lim f(x)-> c, lets you go faster in ST.)

- We know that any breach of the laws of physics is impossible, because laws of nature cannot be broken by their very definition.

- Yet, we know that the laws of physics have been breached in the past. We know this to be true, because we exist today.

- Any thing that manages to act in its very own agency against the law of nature is known as a 'supernatural' event or agent.

- Any action that acted as a supernatural phenomenon, as breaking the laws of nature, is consequently, supernatural.

- God is supernatural, or at least, adheres to the definition of supernatural.

- Therefore, logically, God exists, as the definition of God can extend to the notion of the supernatural.


So...everything that happened before energy cooled down to matter *is* God? That would imply (since nothing supernatural has happened since, by definition) that the Big Bang and the events that immediately followed were in fact the Death of God.

Not very satisfying, IMHO.


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07 Mar 2016, 4:45 pm

I would not consider that an accurate analysis at all.


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts