The Time Has Come For «Fake News» Bashing...

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EzraS
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21 Feb 2017, 5:41 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm confused. The left is phobic of autistic people instead of us being protected under their tolerance umbrella?

Maybe if the autistic person is of color or gay or Judeo-Islamic it makes a difference?


No, only individuals are. Just as there are individual right wingers who refuse to believe autism is even real, and want to end all special education for autistic kids.


What percentage of individuals I wonder.

I take it the whole alt-right/white-supremacist/KKK/Breitbart readers bunch can't be viewed as individuals?



androbot01
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21 Feb 2017, 7:16 am

Jacoby wrote:
What else would you call uncivilized or barbaric besides beliefs?

Behavior.
EzraS wrote:
The flaw I see in that reasoning is that means the Ku Klux Klan can only be judged one member at a time, rather than as a whole.

How else would they be judged?



Jacoby
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21 Feb 2017, 9:08 am

What you are saying doesn't make any sense, you would judge individual KKK members but not their overall belief system? One, I know that isn't true on your part and two, it's not just the actions of individuals that is the problem but rather the underlying ideology. Islam is a barbarous violent religion that oppresses women and pretty much everyone that isn't their specific type of Muslim, I don't think you can be an observant Muslim without adhering to these beliefs. There has never been a reformation in Islam, enlightenment didn't happen there, being western and liberal is being non-observant. The reason why there is such a resistance to change in Islam is because anybody that advocates for it in Muslim lands(or even here in America, look up Rashad Khalifa who was the first US citizen to be murdered by al-Qaeda on US soil) Beliefs don't become barbarous only when acted upon, the people that danced in the street on 9/11 didn't crash those planes into the towers but I still don't want them in my country.

I don't know how you force people to stop believing their religion so it is best they don't come at all unless they make that change themselves. There is no moderate Islam, there are moderate Muslims individually who are less observant but Islam is Islam. What ISIS and al-Qaeda are doing isn't un-Islamic but something they see as deeply steeped in history, Muhammed was a conquerer and they see themselves as following in his footsteps. In the 20th century there were attempts to bring modernity and Western ideas to the Muslim world, the successes came mostly by force from brutal dictatorships the Shah of Iran or Kemal Ataturk during the foundation of Turkey. Arab Nationalists were secular which is an ideology that we have seen come and go; Gamal Abdel Nasser, Saddam Hussein, Muamar Gaddafi, Hafez al-Assad, etc since the decline of this secular ideology we've seen a massive backlash & resurgence of fundamentalism.

Anybody can be born into anything but it is ultimately their choice what they actually believe and are faithful in, the unfortunate thing in the Muslim world is that this choice can cost them everything up their very lives. I don't oppose immigration from people who reject and renounce these ideas as they are among the most oppressed in those lands, I don't see a threat in a Westernized atheist for example. The issue is do they want to assimilate? I do not believe in creating enclaves or ghettos, there is nothing humanitarian about that type of immigration and it can only damage a nation in the long run. The truth is that a good portion of these refugees would be considered extreme in their beliefs, letting them in wholesale seems like a terrible mistake. I believe the screening must be much tougher and that the US should be more choosy about the people it allows in this country, I think the US does mostly a good job but it is undermined by illegal immigration and refugees. Coming to this country should be a privilege and the onus should be on them to respect our values and customs as it would be expect and demanded of us in theirs.



androbot01
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21 Feb 2017, 9:47 am

Jacoby wrote:
What you are saying doesn't make any sense, you would judge individual KKK members but not their overall belief system?

Of course. One's behaviour is all there is to judge people on. That applies universally. Membership and beliefs are irrelevant.



Jacoby
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21 Feb 2017, 9:56 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
What you are saying doesn't make any sense, you would judge individual KKK members but not their overall belief system?

Of course. One's behaviour is all there is to judge people on. That applies universally. Membership and beliefs are irrelevant.


So we shouldn't judge the Nazis and those that supported them but rather just the ones that personally carried out their heinous crimes? Membership and beliefs are irrelevant?

I don't believe you actually believe this



androbot01
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21 Feb 2017, 10:06 am

Jacoby wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
What you are saying doesn't make any sense, you would judge individual KKK members but not their overall belief system?

Of course. One's behaviour is all there is to judge people on. That applies universally. Membership and beliefs are irrelevant.


So we shouldn't judge the Nazis and those that supported them but rather just the ones that personally carried out their heinous crimes? Membership and beliefs are irrelevant?

I don't believe you actually believe this


It all goes back to actions. So, in what way were the Nazi's supported and by whom? What were the crimes? Details. You are taking thinking shortcuts so as to simplify the problem, but you may find doing so makes the problem more complex.



Jacoby
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21 Feb 2017, 10:13 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
What you are saying doesn't make any sense, you would judge individual KKK members but not their overall belief system?

Of course. One's behaviour is all there is to judge people on. That applies universally. Membership and beliefs are irrelevant.


So we shouldn't judge the Nazis and those that supported them but rather just the ones that personally carried out their heinous crimes? Membership and beliefs are irrelevant?

I don't believe you actually believe this


It all goes back to actions. So, in what way were the Nazi's supported and by whom? What were the crimes? Details. You are taking thinking shortcuts so as to simplify the problem, but you may find doing so makes the problem more complex.


I am not following your logic at all. Just answer the question, should we judge people who had membership and belief in Nazi ideology? Yes or no, you can explain your answer further if you want but I am not doing your homework for you.



sly279
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21 Feb 2017, 10:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
They constantly lie about gun control and immigration. If they lie about that then they could and probably do lie about a lot of other things. Even if only half of their news is lies. That makes them fake news. They certainly aren't. The unbiased truth only news they say they are. Going 24/7 was the end to that. It's only gotten worse since.
Want the as close to truth as you can get? On,y watch local news. Far less likely to be as biased and atleat mostly tells the truth.

It's the boy who cried wolf. Nothing they say can be taken to be true unless bunch of independent or right leaning media also say it. Cause if all news media is saying it there's a 80% chance it's true. The left media could probably make up a war and get half the population to believe we at war with some nation, if they wanted to. It's quite sad how sheep like people have become.

Or is what the left says true are we aspies all violent mass shooters?


Who says only the left calls Aspies violent shooters? There are also many on the right who say we're all faking it, and that autistic children need the belt.


So saying aspies are fakers is the same as saying aspies are mass murders to you? To me one is very extremely worse. I'd much rather be accused of faking then accused of being a genocide murder in the waiting, who should be disarmed and treated as a criminal. But no most on the right don't make that comparison too much, call use mooches and theives.

But right now it's the left media going all out calling disabled people all potential mass shooters who now thanks to the ssa gun grab being stopped will go out and commit hundreds or thousands of mass shootings. Despite no one on ssi or ssdi having ever done a mass shooting or much violence at all.

Are you so biased that you don't have any concern for the media and left betraying disabled people as violent murders plotting their mass shooting events? I'm almost terrified to leave my house after watching th media and reading comments on the videos. The way people are talking about us. Like well our completely crazy and exist in our own world unable to even manage pooping in a toilet. It's completely insulting. This from the so called social justice warriors, so called don't judge a book by its cover, so called everyone's independent and stereotypes are wrong. This goes in the face of everything they supposedly stand for. It's a total upfront to equality. But it would seem the disabled are seen as nothing but a sub human punching bag to either side. At least republics stood up for what was right in this case. Thanks to the NRA, ACLU and other dis ability advocacy groups. Sorry if I'm upset but I don't get why you defend the media and left. I'm not right leaning. And right does wrong with regards to welfare, and abortion issue. Why can't you say , you know what this is wrong, what the left is doing here is wrong. Doesn't mean their wrong about everything if this was wrong. Time after time you defend them when they're wrong. Mean if all those groups and majority of mental doctors say this is wrong this mistreats disabled people based in a horrible stereotype. How can you possible defend the left media on this issue? :cry:


I never said anything of the sort - I just pointed out that liberals aren't the only ones who think we're a bunch of psycho killers.
And yes, denying that autism is real is in fact dangerous, as education for autistic children could be cut to further ensure tax cuts for billionaires. I have an eleven year old daughter with autism taking special classes in school that could otherwise be cut.

The only reason to bring it up is to defend the left. You still keep avoiding the issue.



I'm super worried for all of us. Most of us on here don't seem violent at all. It's unfair the media is stigmatizing us as violent


No, I'm saying the left aren't the only ones who say we're violent. It was after all a Republican who had come up with the idiot idea of putting all mentally ill people on a list, so they can't possibly all be friendly to us, as not all liberals are our enemies.


You just can't bring yourself to say it was wrong can you 0.o
What the worse that can happen from you saying what the left media is doing right now is wrong?

No it was the anti gun control group Brady campaign who created nics and decided what people shouldn't be allowed to have guns.

Not to mention I don't think actual several mentally ill people who've had due process and be proven to be dangerous should have guns. But that's not what his is about. Obama tried to make law by changing what it meant. The only people for this are gun control groups who'd do anything to get any kind of gun control regardless of who it hurts.



androbot01
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21 Feb 2017, 10:22 am

Jacoby wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
It all goes back to actions. So, in what way were the Nazi's supported and by whom? What were the crimes? Details. You are taking thinking shortcuts so as to simplify the problem, but you may find doing so makes the problem more complex.


I am not following your logic at all. Just answer the question, should we judge people who had membership and belief in Nazi ideology? Yes or no, you can explain your answer further if you want but I am not doing your homework for you.

It's rude to make such demands, but I'll answer anyway. Judge them for what?



Jacoby
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21 Feb 2017, 10:28 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
It all goes back to actions. So, in what way were the Nazi's supported and by whom? What were the crimes? Details. You are taking thinking shortcuts so as to simplify the problem, but you may find doing so makes the problem more complex.


I am not following your logic at all. Just answer the question, should we judge people who had membership and belief in Nazi ideology? Yes or no, you can explain your answer further if you want but I am not doing your homework for you.

It's rude to make such demands, but I'll answer anyway. Judge them for what?


How is it rude? You are being rude by being disingenuous and obfuscating on a pretty clear cut question, I don't need to educate you on what the Nazis did. Just write out your answer and then I can respond, I don' want to play whatever game this is.



sly279
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21 Feb 2017, 10:34 am

EzraS wrote:
I'm confused. The left is phobic of autistic people instead of us being protected under their tolerance umbrella?

Maybe if the autistic person is of color or gay or Judeo-Islamic it makes a difference?

Right now the whole democrat party minus 2 and all the left media are calling us violent mass shooters over the stopping of obamas ssa gun grab. They'll blowing the whole thing out of proportion and making up lies and sensational headings that have nothing to do with reality. They throw By us under the bus cause they refuse to agree with the republicans on any issue. If the right started supporting abortion tomorrow I bet you the left would then oppose it.

No what it comes down to if you like your right to defense your their enemy. If they had to demoniz gays to get gun control they would. That's exactly what their doing to the disabled community. And more directly us aspies. Since they site sandy hook as the reason for this. Cause they guy was supposedly and aspie. I dont think he was even on ssa. Not to mention he stole the guns from a locked safe. So how stripping aspies or people with anxiety or delexia of their rights would prevented sandy hook? It wouldn't of. Nothing besides a armed cop at the school door or better secured school would have.

This was a tantrum response from Obama after he didn't get his awb through congress.
He waited til the very last moment to in act it making sure it happen before trump came in office though so he couldn't stop it without congress. Ssa didn't even want to do it but were ordered to.
ACLU and pretty much all disabled groups opposed it. But the media is painting it as NRA making it so lunatics who were already barred by a court to not own guns will now be able to.

They also confusing people into thinking the effected people were adjudicated by a court which they weren't. They lie about the number. The ssa said 4.2million people have payees and would be effected and 75,000 new ones every year. The media is saying only 75,000 total would be effected. It's just lie after lie after lie and calling us dangerous people. Saying mass shootings will now be hundreds every month cause of this. The sky is falling the sky is falling it's the end of the world :roll:

Most people don't understand how ssa works or what nics is apparently. I'm fighting one person who thought nics was an actual background check that happens. :roll: no it just checks for your name on a list

So tired of the fake news left
I actually like trump more after his conference where he slammed CNN which could be centered lies network



sly279
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21 Feb 2017, 10:39 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
It all goes back to actions. So, in what way were the Nazi's supported and by whom? What were the crimes? Details. You are taking thinking shortcuts so as to simplify the problem, but you may find doing so makes the problem more complex.


I am not following your logic at all. Just answer the question, should we judge people who had membership and belief in Nazi ideology? Yes or no, you can explain your answer further if you want but I am not doing your homework for you.

It's rude to make such demands, but I'll answer anyway. Judge them for what?

Serious? I dont know mass genocide. Human rights violations, war crimes, take a pick



androbot01
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21 Feb 2017, 11:37 am

Jacoby wrote:
How is it rude? You are being rude by being disingenuous and obfuscating on a pretty clear cut question, I don't need to educate you on what the Nazis did. Just write out your answer and then I can respond, I don' want to play whatever game this is.



sly279 wrote:
Serious? I dont know mass genocide. Human rights violations, war crimes, take a pick


You guys aren't getting my point. Culpability is individual based on individual behaviour.



ASPartOfMe
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21 Feb 2017, 11:38 am

Most of the articles I have read relating to the attempt to repeal the order mention Lanza's Aspergers. After the massacre when Lanza and Aspergers was first linked many Autism advocacy organizations including Autism Speaks worked hard and mostly successfully to delink the association. When Sandy Hook has come up Aspergers has usually not been mentioned and if it was a caveat saying there was not a link between Aspergers and killers was added in, that is until now. We have regressed to December 2012.


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sly279
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21 Feb 2017, 11:40 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
How is it rude? You are being rude by being disingenuous and obfuscating on a pretty clear cut question, I don't need to educate you on what the Nazis did. Just write out your answer and then I can respond, I don' want to play whatever game this is.



sly279 wrote:
Serious? I dont know mass genocide. Human rights violations, war crimes, take a pick


You guys aren't getting my point. Culpability is individual based on individual behaviour.


I see I see so you'd oppose the ssa gun grab then? Also I just saw you asking what to judge the nazis off of and commented .



sly279
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21 Feb 2017, 11:43 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Most of the articles I have read relating to the attempt to repeal the order mention Lanza's Aspergers. After the massacre when Lanza and Aspergers was first linked many Autism advocacy organizations including Autism Speaks worked hard and mostly successfully to delink the association. When Sandy Hook has come up Aspergers has usually not been mentioned and if it was a caveat saying there was not a link between Aspergers and killers was added in, that is until now. We have regressed to December 2012.

Indeed :(

They using sandy hook to play at people's emotions to get them to support the horrible rule change.
The media and left are like it wouldn't stigmatize disabled people as they constantly stigmatize disabled people . The stigmatize is unavoidable now cause of the media but atleast our rights are safe for now.