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TW1ZTY
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26 Mar 2019, 10:56 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Buddha was some high-falutin' personage who decided to "screw all that" and live in the forest for a while.

While living in the forest, he came up with certain things.

After he came out of the forest, he wanted to convey what he learned to others. Other people listened. His ideas spread.

Rather like folks like Jesus and Mohammed (not precisely---but there are similarities).


I once pointed out the similarities between Buddha and Jesus in high school and got a lot of angry backlash. :lol:



kraftiekortie
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26 Mar 2019, 11:06 am

It’s because of their belief in Jesus as being a “superior being” whom nobody could match.

You’re out of high school—-thank goodness!



TW1ZTY
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26 Mar 2019, 11:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s because of their belief in Jesus as being a “superior being” whom nobody could match.

You’re out of high school—-thank goodness!

I know right? War is just Hell, but High School is High School. :lol:



Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 3:46 pm

Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Life is what you make it.


Tell that to the victims of atrocities... 8O

I prefer the wording "Pain is inevitable, Suffering is optional."


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Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 3:50 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
That's great, I just don't believe that my vocabulary is the conversation stopper. I'm pretty sure I could say it in 3rd or 4th grade vocabulary and it wouldn't help much, it's much more likely the foreignness of the ideas themselves.

It would just made you sound like you where insulting their intelligence.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/HLqWn5L ... -distances


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Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 4:44 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
similarly I'm not a reductive materialist and I have had enough 'supernatural' experience that - for my own life -
If I wasn't schizophrenic I would probably believe in the Supernatural too. But I believe in providence instead. For example When I moves to texas I couldn't find my favorite shirt so was sure that I lost it. 5 years and I never see it again. I move to MS and one day my favorite shirt is at the top of my laundry. Maybe it has just hiding all this time, maybe my mother found another one just like at the thrift store and bought it for me, maybe I wake up in a different but similar reality each day. I don't know, but I am confident that it didn't involve reality being changed in someway not allowed by nature.

Quote:
I'm at least glad I haven't heard the 'prove it!' request in a long time because there's no sincerity to it, any attempt to 'prove it' just meets dismissals (no sign that whatever evidence was given even got looked at), if you bring up one study or one bit of science it's 'just one thing' in favor, you could bring up several things and the conversation will probably just end rather than progress,

Round eathers! THey are just as delusional as Flat earthers the fact that they are right doesn't mean that their thinking is an better.
Quote:
I'd add as well - I'm not out to force people to be intellectually honest, I can't, I would at least love to engage with people who want to try their hand at such but at the same time I'm equally too pessimistic about human nature (especially for what I've seen online in the last 20 years I've been on, looking at what's real in the news politically, etc.) to believe that it's possible for good arguments to make much of a dent.
Me too!

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If there are people who want to think critically about these things I'd love to talk to them,

PM me so we don't get interrupted by people jealous that people are having a conversation that is over their heads.

Quote:
Regardless though I'd also rather test the concepts that I work with, see what kinds of high quality criticism they get, and to the extent that they've stood the test of time and scrutiny I like to share my ideas because if almost no one else is saying these things, and if true they seem deeply salient/important, then I can't think of a particularly good reason not to talk about them.

You can't lead people to a truth they don't want to hear, but you can mislead them to it.

Lies are the sharpest weapon, truth the bluntest. And when you want to surgically remove a cancer from someone you want to use a sharp scalpel not a rusty spoon.


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26 Mar 2019, 4:49 pm

Hsingai wrote:
Round eathers! THey are just as delusional as Flat earthers the fact that they are right doesn't mean that their thinking is an better.
Actually, it does! It's because our thinking is better that delusion is stripped away and truth is revealed.



Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 4:57 pm

Pepe wrote:

I believe in synthetic "telepathy" using psychotronics...
Previous "lives" could simply be the implantation of "memories" through remote hypnotic influencing...<shrug>

Yes I know, wacky stuff... :mrgreen:

I'm not sure on what you terminology means but it seems like what I believe in. That past life memories are just implants of the gestalt subconsciousness.

Of course I believe that speech is just how neurons fire in the hive mind.


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Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 5:01 pm

Claradoon wrote:
"Life is what you make it." - Life is what you make it as you play the cards you are dealt.

If your smart you palm cards from the previous hand and cheat on future ones. but most people are too honest to do that.


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Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 5:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hsingai wrote:
Round eathers! THey are just as delusional as Flat earthers the fact that they are right doesn't mean that their thinking is an better.
Actually, it does! It's because our thinking is better that delusion is stripped away and truth is revealed.

if A then B doesn't mean if B then A.

A truth being revealed doesn't strip away delusions.
A clock that always says it's 2 o'clock is still just a broken when it's 2 o'clock.


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techstepgenr8tion
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26 Mar 2019, 5:20 pm

Hsingai wrote:
If I wasn't schizophrenic I would probably believe in the Supernatural too. But I believe in providence instead. For example When I moves to texas I couldn't find my favorite shirt so was sure that I lost it. 5 years and I never see it again. I move to MS and one day my favorite shirt is at the top of my laundry. Maybe it has just hiding all this time, maybe my mother found another one just like at the thrift store and bought it for me, maybe I wake up in a different but similar reality each day. I don't know, but I am confident that it didn't involve reality being changed in someway not allowed by nature.

I'd add - I don't believe in the 'supernatural' so much as the yet unknown natural, just that I don't subscribe to the idea popular these days that matter and natural phenomena are strictly unconscious. That last bit is what I think the evidence points away from.


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26 Mar 2019, 5:21 pm

A beach toilet that doesn’t flush, is still just a broken toilet even when a tsunami hits.

What the...



Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 6:18 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Hsingai wrote:
If I wasn't schizophrenic I would probably believe in the Supernatural too. But I believe in providence instead. For example When I moves to texas I couldn't find my favorite shirt so was sure that I lost it. 5 years and I never see it again. I move to MS and one day my favorite shirt is at the top of my laundry. Maybe it has just hiding all this time, maybe my mother found another one just like at the thrift store and bought it for me, maybe I wake up in a different but similar reality each day. I don't know, but I am confident that it didn't involve reality being changed in someway not allowed by nature.

I'd add - I don't believe in the 'supernatural' so much as the yet unknown natural, just that I don't subscribe to the idea popular these days that matter and natural phenomena are strictly unconscious. That last bit is what I think the evidence points away from.

I don't believe that knowledge isn't a physical process. In fact according to Quantum Mechanics the fundamental building block of physics is the exchange of information.
Standford's Quantum Mechanics course is a real good explanation. If you can understand what a square root is them you can understand QM that the hardest concept. Thou the Standford Quantum Entanglements course wasn't vary clear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzhlfbW ... 9CB1D13841

The New Agey explanation is that observations collapse the wave functions and observations require a conscious mind. since Observations are the same thing as entanglements and subatomic particles can get entangled then subatomic particles are conscious minds.

Or more technically Observations are a symmetric operator in QM so if you observe something that something observers you.


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techstepgenr8tion
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26 Mar 2019, 7:05 pm

That could be so, though I really feel like we're a long ways away from having a handle on things. There is more convergence starting to happen between physics, neurology, and subjective philosophies, that's promising, but I don't think it'll really pick up a whole lot of steam until the money is in that area. The financial incentives may come but I think they're still decades off.


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26 Mar 2019, 7:15 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
That could be so, though I really feel like we're a long ways away from having a handle on things. There is more convergence starting to happen between physics, neurology, and subjective philosophies, that's promising, but I don't think it'll really pick up a whole lot of steam until the money is in that area. The financial incentives may come but I think they're still decades off.
Even if reincarnation is proven to be real, where would the financial incentive be?

Bequeathing your estate to yourself while dodging inheritance taxes? Unless you could accurately predict the identity of your next incarnation, your estate is likely to go to your immediate heirs, especially since they would have more legal proof of their identities than you. Inheriting from your previous incarnation would also require extreme proof of identity.

Stashing your wealth in a secure place before your death, and then recovering it after your re-birth? Someone else could find it while you're still in limbo between lives. Someone could claim the secure place as his or her own, and thus limit your access to your secret stash. Your stash could be hidden in a secret vault under a Bel-Air mansion, yet you get re-born in an aboriginal village somewhere in the Outback. War could be declared between the country of your previous incarnation and the country of your current one. A lot can happen between lives, especially if your time in Limbo is measured in centuries, and not seconds.



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26 Mar 2019, 8:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
Even if reincarnation is proven to be real, where would the financial incentive be?

Bequeathing your estate to yourself while dodging inheritance taxes? Unless you could accurately predict the identity of your next incarnation, your estate is likely to go to your immediate heirs, especially since they would have more legal proof of their identities than you. Inheriting from your previous incarnation would also require extreme proof of identity.

Stashing your wealth in a secure place before your death, and then recovering it after your re-birth? Someone else could find it while you're still in limbo between lives. Someone could claim the secure place as his or her own, and thus limit your access to your secret stash. Your stash could be hidden in a secret vault under a Bel-Air mansion, yet you get re-born in an aboriginal village somewhere in the Outback. War could be declared between the country of your previous incarnation and the country of your current one. A lot can happen between lives, especially if your time in Limbo is measured in centuries, and not seconds.

We weren't even on that topic, you can check the chain of quotes to get some context.

As for what proof of reincarnation would be worth? Probably knowing that if we have a system that's stealing from the future or destroying future conditions to gorge ourselves in the now it's probably better if more people knew that they would be their own great grandchildren or the equivalent, ie. that if they get born into a world similar to Max Max or Book of Eli that they'll have their own past selves to blame.


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