Why aren't whites told to go back where they came from?

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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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23 Jul 2019, 11:44 am

Honestly the fact that the US became a country by taking land away from the natives by force really bothers me. :(

And when I think about things like slavery or placing Japanese Americans in internment camps during World War 2, I get so angry with this country sometimes! :x


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kraftiekortie
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23 Jul 2019, 11:50 am

Most countries "became countries" through some sort of conquest. That's history for you.

The United States became a country because they were tired of being colonists. Then, they did more conquering---both of Indians and of colonies of other nations. They also had to defend themselves from the designs of the British early in the 19th century.

Countries maintain themselves through conquest....or through defending themselves against conquest. During the 100 Years War in the 14-15th centuries, France remained a country through thwarting the designs of the English. If they didn't defend themselves, they would have been no more. The English came VERY close to taking over France in the early 15th century. In fact, during the coronation of an English king or queen, they claimed to be king and queen of France as well for quite a long time. France survived by the skin of its teeth.

Countries really didn't start being "created" through neither conquest nor defense until the 19th century.

The United States used to be able to transcend their "conquering" image; they were a "donor nation" for a while, and sort of the "world's watchdog."

Nowadays, though, our image is that we are not as "morally upright" as we (and they) thought we were during, say, the 1950s.



TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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23 Jul 2019, 12:14 pm

Every time I think of the hostilities between the English and the French I think of roses and lilies (like the tudor rose and fleur de lis). :flower:

Very Game of Thronesy. :king: :queen:

But yeah, just like plants and animals in nature competing for food and territory, humans aren't much different when it comes to fighting wars and conquering.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Jul 2019, 2:21 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
I finally realized that I shouldn't keep defending the south when it comes to the Civil War. I mean I say I'm not racist but I'm basically defending people that supported slavery and what they did to African Americans was really damn sh***y. :|

But with that said, I still view the Union army with contempt for what they did to the Natives Americans. They really were not much different from us in regards to racism even though the north likes to think they were. Let's not forget that the Native Americans were tricked out of the island of Manhattan for a cup of worthless beads.


As I understand the situation with Manhattan, the Native Americans were actually the ones who took the whites, as they actually didn't live there ( :lol: :lol: ), but took payment, anyhow.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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23 Jul 2019, 10:01 pm

The American government f****d the natives over big time, and they still continue to f**k them over to this day. :roll:

This whole goddamn country is racist and not just the south. Just accept it.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Jul 2019, 10:14 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
The American government f****d the natives over big time, and they still continue to f**k them over to this day. :roll:

This whole goddamn country is racist and not just the south. Just accept it.


The country had been built on racism, but I think we've been learning that the promise of America includes everyone. Well, most of us have, though Trumps fan club is evidence that such growing up isn't for everyone.


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cyberdad
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24 Jul 2019, 3:28 am

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
^^No Doubt!
In the 1950s, parents were complaining about Rock N Roll being the "Devil's Music."
In the previous generation, swing music was considered scandalous.

There was also a time when Jazz music was called "Devil's Music". In New Orleans I learned they actually tried to outlaw it. I think mostly because it was a style of music invented by black people and the high society snobs didn't like the fact that young white people were liking these black musicians and paying them to perform at clubs.


That was the beginning of cultural appropriation that made black music acceptable to white audiences...

Started with Jazz
https://morningsidereview.org/essay/bla ... ite-power/

Ended up with rock music
http://www.iamtheindustry.com/blog/2016 ... c-matters/

Without black contributions white folks would be waltzing to Andre Rieu and attending the opera (although most musical instruments and waltzes were copied from Jews and Gyspies)



naturalplastic
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24 Jul 2019, 6:41 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
I finally realized that I shouldn't keep defending the south when it comes to the Civil War. I mean I say I'm not racist but I'm basically defending people that supported slavery and what they did to African Americans was really damn sh***y. :|

But with that said, I still view the Union army with contempt for what they did to the Natives Americans. They really were not much different from us in regards to racism even though the north likes to think they were. Let's not forget that the Native Americans were tricked out of the island of Manhattan for a cup of worthless beads.


As I understand the situation with Manhattan, the Native Americans were actually the ones who took the whites, as they actually didn't live there ( :lol: :lol: ), but took payment, anyhow.


That's what I heard too.

That the Indian guys on the shore who took the trinkets in exchange for Manhatten, were trespassers from the neighboring tribe who were fishing without a fishing license when the Dutch guy on the ship approached them.

Then the Dutch guy discovered that the island he bought was a fake island! Just one big slab of concrete with a little square of trees in the middle!



naturalplastic
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24 Jul 2019, 6:44 am

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
^^No Doubt!

In the 1950s, parents were complaining about Rock N Roll being the "Devil's Music."

In the previous generation, swing music was considered scandalous.


There was also a time when Jazz music was called "Devil's Music". In New Orleans I learned they actually tried to outlaw it. I think mostly because it was a style of music invented by black people and the high society snobs didn't like the fact that young white people were liking these black musicians and paying them to perform at clubs.


In 1780's the clergy, and aristocracy, of central Europe were horrified by the site of couples doing the new "godless" dance craze called "the waltz".



Kraichgauer
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24 Jul 2019, 12:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
I finally realized that I shouldn't keep defending the south when it comes to the Civil War. I mean I say I'm not racist but I'm basically defending people that supported slavery and what they did to African Americans was really damn sh***y. :|

But with that said, I still view the Union army with contempt for what they did to the Natives Americans. They really were not much different from us in regards to racism even though the north likes to think they were. Let's not forget that the Native Americans were tricked out of the island of Manhattan for a cup of worthless beads.


As I understand the situation with Manhattan, the Native Americans were actually the ones who took the whites, as they actually didn't live there ( :lol: :lol: ), but took payment, anyhow.


That's what I heard too.

That the Indian guys on the shore who took the trinkets in exchange for Manhatten, were trespassers from the neighboring tribe who were fishing without a fishing license when the Dutch guy on the ship approached them.

Then the Dutch guy discovered that the island he bought was a fake island! Just one big slab of concrete with a little square of trees in the middle!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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