Page 8 of 11 [ 172 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

23 Aug 2020, 5:35 pm

The concept of “white extinction” is solely a white supremacist/racist notion.



Drake
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,577

23 Aug 2020, 5:36 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Drake wrote:
So we're not even talking about the Proud Boys now.

If you've got a group identifying as white supremacists, then there's nothing wrong with calling them that. But someone might sympathise with that group and it have nothing to do with white supremacism. I don't know much about the Proud Boys, but I know they brawl with antifa a lot. You could express support for them confronting antifa and if they are white supremacists, at the same time condemn them for that.


ANTIFA largely exist because of groups like that. They're a response to far-right violence.

I hate antifa. Probably best not to go into it though with tensions running high.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

23 Aug 2020, 5:48 pm

I would go as far as to say that if anybody believes “white” is an ethnic group with common characteristics.....that that somebody is probably a racist.



Jakki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,789
Location: Outter Quadrant

23 Aug 2020, 5:53 pm

magz wrote:
I know it's a fragile topic but I believe it would be healthier to discuss it here than to get other threads randomly hijacked by it.

I don't have any strong opinion myself. I think it's more a post-colonial issue of not-always-nice history beyond the current status quo.
I would love to hear different points of view.


Lack of knowledge .


_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 34,202
Location: Right over your left shoulder

23 Aug 2020, 6:01 pm

Drake wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Drake wrote:
So we're not even talking about the Proud Boys now.

If you've got a group identifying as white supremacists, then there's nothing wrong with calling them that. But someone might sympathise with that group and it have nothing to do with white supremacism. I don't know much about the Proud Boys, but I know they brawl with antifa a lot. You could express support for them confronting antifa and if they are white supremacists, at the same time condemn them for that.


ANTIFA largely exist because of groups like that. They're a response to far-right violence.

I hate antifa. Probably best not to go into it though with tensions running high.


That's nice, it doesn't change their history.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

23 Aug 2020, 6:03 pm

Independencee March two years ago in Poland was portraited in some media as a massive far-right manifestation.
Several people I know attended to it. It was a celebration of 100th anniversary of regaining independence. Journalists indeed found and photographed a far-right group but thousands of people on the march had nothing to do with them apart from attending the same celebration. From a point of view of a typical participant, the extremists weren't even visible.

I don't know about the marches you talk about. I'm just using it as an example I personally know, of how sometimes associations can be manipulated by media to make a desired impression. That's why I believe it's always worth it to listen to the other side's perspective.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

23 Aug 2020, 6:08 pm

Jakki wrote:
magz wrote:
I know it's a fragile topic but I believe it would be healthier to discuss it here than to get other threads randomly hijacked by it.

I don't have any strong opinion myself. I think it's more a post-colonial issue of not-always-nice history beyond the current status quo.
I would love to hear different points of view.

Lack of knowledge .

Can you, please, elaborate?


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Drake
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,577

23 Aug 2020, 6:11 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I would go as far as to say that if anybody believes “white” is an ethnic group with common characteristics.....that that somebody is probably a racist.

Well, they all have white skin! :mrgreen:

But yes, go to Europe, and there are many different white ethnicities with considerably different cultures.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 34,202
Location: Right over your left shoulder

23 Aug 2020, 6:14 pm

Drake wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I would go as far as to say that if anybody believes “white” is an ethnic group with common characteristics.....that that somebody is probably a racist.

Well, they all have white skin! :mrgreen:

But yes, go to Europe, and there are many different white ethnicities with considerably different cultures.


Sicilians and Lebanese are often considered white and are often darker than some folks who generally are not considered white. Races don't really have solid definitions and this trend towards fuzzy borders is part of what makes them social constructs instead of biological realities.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

23 Aug 2020, 6:18 pm

magz wrote:
Independencee March two years ago in Poland was portraited in some media as a massive far-right manifestation.
Several people I know attended to it. It was a celebration of 100th anniversary of regaining independence. Journalists indeed found and photographed a far-right group but thousands of people on the march had nothing to do with them apart from attending the same celebration. From a point of view of a typical participant, the extremists weren't even visible.

I don't know about the marches you talk about. I'm just using it as an example I personally know, of how sometimes associations can be manipulated by media to make a desired impression. That's why I believe it's always worth it to listen to the other side's perspective.


Isn't Poland currently controlled by a far right government and dictator?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right ... _in_Poland

I don't know if you agree, I have heard things like a lot of marginalization of LGBT people in Poland, that might not leave a lot of people realise how far-right certain things might be.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 34,202
Location: Right over your left shoulder

23 Aug 2020, 6:20 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
magz wrote:
Independencee March two years ago in Poland was portraited in some media as a massive far-right manifestation.
Several people I know attended to it. It was a celebration of 100th anniversary of regaining independence. Journalists indeed found and photographed a far-right group but thousands of people on the march had nothing to do with them apart from attending the same celebration. From a point of view of a typical participant, the extremists weren't even visible.

I don't know about the marches you talk about. I'm just using it as an example I personally know, of how sometimes associations can be manipulated by media to make a desired impression. That's why I believe it's always worth it to listen to the other side's perspective.


Isn't Poland currently controlled by a far right government and dictator?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right ... _in_Poland

I don't know if you agree, I have heard things like a lot of marginalization of LGBT people in Poland, that might not leave a lot of people realise how far-right certain things might be.


My understanding is that there's a fairly authoritarian, reactionary, nationalist government in power but that Poland still is a democratic state.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

23 Aug 2020, 6:30 pm

Our party in power is socialist economically and conservative - sometimes agressively - socially. They are doing a lot of damage but we remain a democratic state.
The current official situation of LGBT is scandalous here. We've been a rather conservative society with surprising amount of tolerance but then our ruling party made hating LGBT a proxy to siege mentality. That's a topic worth another thread. Harm done by populisms.

It's all quite unrelated to the Independence Day story, where people who just went there to celebrate got equated in some media to small extremist group also present there.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

23 Aug 2020, 7:37 pm

magz wrote:
It's all quite unrelated to the Independence Day story, where people who just went there to celebrate got equated in some media to small extremist group also present there.


I just thought that perhaps that there could some relation of how LGBT people are seen to other conservative viewpoints, that maybe an event that was not previously a problem about national pride, might have a shifting tone that came with the new wave of right wing populism. Sure not everyone there is probably far-right, but could there be some form of cooptation of far-right groups that the lack of criticism of by the other people could be seen as a partial endorsement of their message.

National pride is not always a good thing, but you are always going to have people take things too far, and I suppose that it can be an increment shift from a celebration of freedom, to a call of what a true patriot is (no gays or foreigners?). I used to see national pride in my country as just that, but I have been jaded a little bit about what it can turn into.

In 2005 in Australia there was this event that became known as the Cronulla Riots, which had a lot of open appearances of acting like it was Aussie pride, something you would see on Australia day. But it was also kind of obvious from some of the common rhetoric that a lot of it was racially motivated, it was white typical Australians being angry about people who were not that. I have been a little turned off by some of the Australia day stuff since then, since it kind of looks like the ones who act most patriotic with Australian flags may be the exact same people who would want to get shout at foreigners to get out.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

23 Aug 2020, 7:53 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
magz wrote:
It's all quite unrelated to the Independence Day story, where people who just went there to celebrate got equated in some media to small extremist group also present there.


I just thought that perhaps that there could some relation of how LGBT people are seen to other conservative viewpoints, that maybe an event that was not previously a problem about national pride, might have a shifting tone that came with the new wave of right wing populism. Sure not everyone there is probably far-right, but could there be some form of cooptation of far-right groups that the lack of criticism of by the other people could be seen as a partial endorsement of their message.

National pride is not always a good thing, but you are always going to have people take things too far, and I suppose that it can be an increment shift from a celebration of freedom, to a call of what a true patriot is (no gays or foreigners?). I used to see national pride in my country as just that, but I have been jaded a little bit about what it can turn into.

In 2005 in Australia there was this event that became known as the Cronulla Riots, which had a lot of open appearances of acting like it was Aussie pride, something you would see on Australia day. But it was also kind of obvious from some of the common rhetoric that a lot of it was racially motivated, it was white typical Australians being angry about people who were not that. I have been a little turned off by some of the Australia day stuff since then, since it kind of looks like the ones who act most patriotic with Australian flags may be the exact same people who would want to get shout at foreigners to get out.

At least some foreigners took part of the celebration, too. When it comes to gays, we have a specific traditional concept of tolerance ("you're a sinner but it's neither mine nor the state's business to punish you") documented since at least 16th century and it's still alive... at least in some, quite wide, circles.
LGBT bashing got most intensive recently, after that anniversary, reaching culmination in this year's election campaign :disgusted:

I don't say we don't have some nationalists here. I was just refering to an event that was portrayed with so much prejudice that the description I read and the description I heard from people who were there got completely divergent.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Jakki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,789
Location: Outter Quadrant

23 Aug 2020, 8:28 pm

Does it make me virtually bigoted if I dislike people who prefer to hate . Sorry not trying to derail thread,, just kinda. Popped out.


_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are


Oh_no_its_Ferris
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Aug 2020
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 728

23 Aug 2020, 8:30 pm

Jakki wrote:
Does it make me virtually bigoted if I dislike people who prefer to hate . Sorry not trying to derail thread,, just kinda. Popped out.


If ya gonna hate something , hate hate


_________________
Release me from moral assumption
Total rejection total destruction