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Should the government make vaccination compulsory?

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goldfish21
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31 Dec 2021, 5:13 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
The overall statistics of both hospital beds being filled by Covid patients, plus the stats on Covid admissions and mortality rate versus the flu, isn't even a big issue from a scientific perspective.

The focus on Covid is a rabbit hole of fear & propaganda.

Literally, people being programmed & controlled for the sake of vaccine manufacturer profits and the companies associated with them. For no other purpose.

Hundreds of millions of people, stupified & brainwashed for no other reason than the profit of a capitalist few.


Umm, except the mortality rates have been many times that of the flu, soooo, apples to oranges and that's why it's been a big deal.


One factor in that perception, is that hospitals are admitting patients with the flu, testing them with Covid PCR tests that are not really fit for purpose in a practical sense (although very complex in technology), and allowing them to mix with people who actually have Covid.

So even when they don't have Covid to begin with, it is now normal hospital practice in my country at least to let them catch Covid, without making sure they actually had Covid in the first place.

Life is cheap for the organisations that run hospitals, unfortunately.


..and if they catch covid and die from it - they died from covid.. so covid mortality rates increase. Full stop.

If everyone lived in their own little bubble and didn't spread covid and no one caught it nor died from it then covid would have a mortality rate way lower than the flu!! lol so what? That's not reality.


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blitzkrieg
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31 Dec 2021, 5:15 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
The overall statistics of both hospital beds being filled by Covid patients, plus the stats on Covid admissions and mortality rate versus the flu, isn't even a big issue from a scientific perspective.

The focus on Covid is a rabbit hole of fear & propaganda.

Literally, people being programmed & controlled for the sake of vaccine manufacturer profits and the companies associated with them. For no other purpose.

Hundreds of millions of people, stupified & brainwashed for no other reason than the profit of a capitalist few.


Umm, except the mortality rates have been many times that of the flu, soooo, apples to oranges and that's why it's been a big deal.


One factor in that perception, is that hospitals are admitting patients with the flu, testing them with Covid PCR tests that are not really fit for purpose in a practical sense (although very complex in technology), and allowing them to mix with people who actually have Covid.

So even when they don't have Covid to begin with, it is now normal hospital practice in my country at least to let them catch Covid, without making sure they actually had Covid in the first place.

Life is cheap for the organisations that run hospitals, unfortunately.


..and if they catch covid and die from it - they died from covid.. so covid mortality rates increase. Full stop.

If everyone lived in their own little bubble and didn't spread covid and no one caught it nor died from it then covid would have a mortality rate way lower than the flu!! lol so what? That's not reality.


Would it not make more sense though to isolate patients with flu from patients with Covid & actually design a Covid PCR test that works effectively?

Anyway, I'm going into this new year with a new mindset. I'm not going to argue my points unnecessarily.

Do whatever works for you. I shall do the same.


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Nades
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31 Dec 2021, 5:19 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
The overall statistics of both hospital beds being filled by Covid patients, plus the stats on Covid admissions and mortality rate versus the flu, isn't even a big issue from a scientific perspective.

The focus on Covid is a rabbit hole of fear & propaganda.

Literally, people being programmed & controlled for the sake of vaccine manufacturer profits and the companies associated with them. For no other purpose.

Hundreds of millions of people, stupified & brainwashed for no other reason than the profit of a capitalist few.


Umm, except the mortality rates have been many times that of the flu, soooo, apples to oranges and that's why it's been a big deal.


One factor in that perception, is that hospitals are admitting patients with the flu, testing them with Covid PCR tests that are not really fit for purpose in a practical sense (although very complex in technology), and allowing them to mix with people who actually have Covid.

So even when they don't have Covid to begin with, it is now normal hospital practice in my country at least to let them catch Covid, without making sure they actually had Covid in the first place.

Life is cheap for the organisations that run hospitals, unfortunately.


This is another issue of contention. Lack of transparency on how, when, why and who when it comes to positive cases and how patients are tested is damaging trust in how people perceive the medical sector.

When the first British patient of the new variant died in the UK even the prime minister seemed reluctant to answer questions on the circumstances around it. He didn't clarify anything whatsoever.



AngelRho
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31 Dec 2021, 5:47 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I’m already hearing that Omicron is much less severe than Delta. If that’s the case and more people get it at a faster rate, it’s not unlike getting vaccinated. I’m convinced EVERYONE in the US will have been infected at some point.


But it's also not the same, either, as I've read that unvaccinated people have a 10x higher rate of reinfection than vaccinated. Even if people have had some strain of covid or another, it's still ideal for them to get vaccinated against it in order to reduce their chances of infection And/Or severe symptoms.

I know several people who've been jabbed, jabbed, and boosted who had breakthrough COVID infections. I haven't had the booster yet. This time of year I've got tons of stuff going on over the weekends, so we're talking near the end of January when I can get the shot. Both episodes of Moderna I felt like I was on death's door, though I was able to keep going just using OTC meds. So I know if I'm doing anything I'm taking a weekend to recover.

But for me, it's a precaution that I'm taking because my school really doesn't handle my absence well. I mean...they really, really don't, and I understand that now it's considered a felony if you get a positive test result and don't quarantine. Honest truth, if you get a runny nose and show up to work, everyone looks at you funny until you say, "No, it's cool. I've been vaxxed." I'm really only going through this for the sake of everyone else's peace of mind. I can do my job better when I don't have to deal with other people breathing down my neck. I'm like, yep, I'm a card-carrying member of the COVID Clurb. See? I even got the T-shirt. It reads, "Relax, I'm VAXXED! :heart: " Given all the breakthroughs I've seen, I don't have nearly the faith in the vaccine that I used to.



ironpony
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31 Dec 2021, 6:16 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
No.

The government has no right to tell anyone what to do with their body. That's a very slippery slope.


Mandatory vaccination is medical rape. Let's just call it what it is.

It's very similar to taking away a biological woman's abortion rights.

Having no choice but to vaccinate is like having no choice of aborting a child.


This is ironic though, since a lot of people are pro-choice, are also the ones telling people to get vaccinated wh don't want to.

But as far as saying that the government has no right to force people to do what they want with their bodies, the government has forced people during times of war before. We the human race, are at war with a virus right now. In past times of war, the governments have done things, such as bomb cities to fight war, or even hiroshima or nagasaki. That is far worse forcing people into things they do not want, such as in those cases death, yet fighting the war with covid by forcing vaccination on people is too much? It's okay to force death onto people when fighting a war sometimes, but forcing a vaccine on people to have them live is bad? Why is forcing death to fight a war okay, but forcing life to fight a war, not?

In order to beat covid, you have to fight fire with fire and sink to covid's level in order to attempt to stop it?



kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2021, 9:03 pm

Vaccination means less patients taking up space in hospitals which should be reserved for people, say, who have cancer or have heart attacks.



goldfish21
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31 Dec 2021, 9:13 pm

AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I’m already hearing that Omicron is much less severe than Delta. If that’s the case and more people get it at a faster rate, it’s not unlike getting vaccinated. I’m convinced EVERYONE in the US will have been infected at some point.


But it's also not the same, either, as I've read that unvaccinated people have a 10x higher rate of reinfection than vaccinated. Even if people have had some strain of covid or another, it's still ideal for them to get vaccinated against it in order to reduce their chances of infection And/Or severe symptoms.

I know several people who've been jabbed, jabbed, and boosted who had breakthrough COVID infections. I haven't had the booster yet. This time of year I've got tons of stuff going on over the weekends, so we're talking near the end of January when I can get the shot. Both episodes of Moderna I felt like I was on death's door, though I was able to keep going just using OTC meds. So I know if I'm doing anything I'm taking a weekend to recover.

But for me, it's a precaution that I'm taking because my school really doesn't handle my absence well. I mean...they really, really don't, and I understand that now it's considered a felony if you get a positive test result and don't quarantine. Honest truth, if you get a runny nose and show up to work, everyone looks at you funny until you say, "No, it's cool. I've been vaxxed." I'm really only going through this for the sake of everyone else's peace of mind. I can do my job better when I don't have to deal with other people breathing down my neck. I'm like, yep, I'm a card-carrying member of the COVID Clurb. See? I even got the T-shirt. It reads, "Relax, I'm VAXXED! :heart: " Given all the breakthroughs I've seen, I don't have nearly the faith in the vaccine that I used to.


Your anecdotes don’t stack up against the broader statistics. Or perhaps they do - any of those vaccinated breakthrough case people you know die? Doubt it. Very very few fully vaccinated people get seriously ill or die from covid. That’s the point - reduce it to a cold/flu vs permanent organ damage, long covid, or death. I still have faith in the vaccines because the stats continue to prove their effectiveness.


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31 Dec 2021, 9:18 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Vaccination means less patients taking up space in hospitals which should be reserved for people, say, who have cancer or have heart attacks.


Or diabetes, alcohol and drug related illness, smoking, idiotic accidents and just chronic obesity related problems (heart attacks and cancer often included)

If avoiding hogging hospital resources are going to be mentioned, might as well mention the white elephant in the room of the mountains of non Covid resource hogging which never seems to be brought up anymore.

Salads mean considerably less patients taking up space in hospitals.
Going out for a walk mean less patients taking up space in hospitals.
Seat belts mean less patients taking up space in hospital.
Less drugs and drink mean less patients taking up space in hospitals.

Hasn't US life expectancy dropped considerably recently? Hospitals should be reserved for the old and unlucky. Not the fatties or stupid. It's no wonder American health insurance costs a fortune.



kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2021, 9:20 pm

US life expectancy became lower because of COVID.

I usually walk at least 10 miles a day. Sometimes run about 3 miles, too. I’m slightly overweight.



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31 Dec 2021, 9:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
US life expectancy became lower because of COVID.

I usually walk at least 10 miles a day. Sometimes run about 3 miles, too. I’m slightly overweight.


I heard it became lower because of drug abuse.



ironpony
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31 Dec 2021, 9:26 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Vaccination means less patients taking up space in hospitals which should be reserved for people, say, who have cancer or have heart attacks.


What if the hospitals did what my gf's Mom suggested (who is a hospital worker), and just don't treat people who are not vaccinated, in order to motivate them to get vaccinated, if they want treatment?



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31 Dec 2021, 9:35 pm

ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Vaccination means less patients taking up space in hospitals which should be reserved for people, say, who have cancer or have heart attacks.


What if the hospitals did what my gf's Mom suggested (who is a hospital worker), and just don't treat people who are not vaccinated, in order to motivate them to get vaccinated, if they want treatment?


Wouldn't it be easier to just just kill them? Might as well because turning away patients from a hospital seems brutal. Are there plenty of AR15's in northern America? Should put them to good use in the hospital corridors rather than school corridors, I'm sure doctors would rarely miss with their steady hands.

Seriously, what WTF with your GF's mom. Are you sure she should be employed in her current capacity as a hospital worker?



ironpony
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31 Dec 2021, 9:42 pm

Nades wrote:
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Vaccination means less patients taking up space in hospitals which should be reserved for people, say, who have cancer or have heart attacks.


What if the hospitals did what my gf's Mom suggested (who is a hospital worker), and just don't treat people who are not vaccinated, in order to motivate them to get vaccinated, if they want treatment?


Wouldn't it be easier to just just kill them? Might as well because turning away patients from a hospital seems brutal. Are there plenty of AR15's in northern America? Should put them to good use in the hospital corridors rather than school corridors, I'm sure doctors would rarely miss with their steady hands.

Seriously, what WTF with your GF's mom. Are you sure she should be employed in her current capacity as a hospital worker?


She is, I guess she just feels like people need to be compelled to take getting vaccinated more seriously. But what I mean is though, I'm not saying kill people just force them to get it. You can't beat covid if the government chooses to fight it with one hand tied around their b@$$s.



kraftiekortie
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31 Dec 2021, 9:44 pm

I believe everybody who has a condition deserves to be treated, and treated well.

But it’s unfortunate that unvaccinated COVID patients might be the difference between life and death for some non-COVID patients.



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31 Dec 2021, 9:49 pm

ironpony wrote:
Nades wrote:
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Vaccination means less patients taking up space in hospitals which should be reserved for people, say, who have cancer or have heart attacks.


What if the hospitals did what my gf's Mom suggested (who is a hospital worker), and just don't treat people who are not vaccinated, in order to motivate them to get vaccinated, if they want treatment?


Wouldn't it be easier to just just kill them? Might as well because turning away patients from a hospital seems brutal. Are there plenty of AR15's in northern America? Should put them to good use in the hospital corridors rather than school corridors, I'm sure doctors would rarely miss with their steady hands.

Seriously, what WTF with your GF's mom. Are you sure she should be employed in her current capacity as a hospital worker?


She is, I guess she just feels like people need to be compelled to take getting vaccinated more seriously. But what I mean is though, I'm not saying kill people just force them to get it. You can't beat covid if the government chooses to fight it with one hand tied around their b@$$s.


Forcing them to get it by threatening to remove all medical care from them? That sounds a lot like threatening to kill them.



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31 Dec 2021, 9:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe everybody who has a condition deserves to be treated, and treated well.

But it’s unfortunate that unvaccinated COVID patients might be the difference between life and death for some non-COVID patients.


There are plenty of vaccinated dead weights hogging hospital beds right now. These dead weights have been hogging them for many, many, many years too. How are they not just as much of an annoyance as the unvaccinated?