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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Pepe
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03 Mar 2022, 5:19 am

Nades wrote:
I'm rapidly losing respect for ex Soviet block eastern European nations and their populations for thinking their axe to grind is everyone else's axe.


So, are you saying you have a problem with Ukraine asking for help against overwhelming odds involving pootin's might?
And you don't respect the heroism of the Iranian Ukrainian defence of their sovereign nation?
And you don't mind the deaths of civilians as a result of his tantrum because he has been humiliated by this poor nation?
And you don't see the danger of pootin potentially subjugating other sovereign nations in his megalomaniacal quest for a place in history?

I can respect that. <sarcasm> :mrgreen:



DW_a_mom
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03 Mar 2022, 5:32 am

Nades wrote:
I'm rapidly losing respect for ex Soviet block eastern European nations and their populations for thinking their axe to grind is everyone else's axe.


If you think we can bury our heads in the sands and pretend we here in the US wouldn't be hit in a million ways as other governments fall to Russia you are wrong.

It's never just one country. Or two. Or ?


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03 Mar 2022, 5:35 am

reminds me of the words of the reverend Martin Niemöller-
Image



Nades
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03 Mar 2022, 6:48 am

Pepe wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm rapidly losing respect for ex Soviet block eastern European nations and their populations for thinking their axe to grind is everyone else's axe.


So, are you saying you have a problem with Ukraine asking for help against overwhelming odds involving pootin's might?
And you don't respect the heroism of the Iranian Ukrainian defence of their sovereign nation?
And you don't mind the deaths of civilians as a result of his tantrum because he has been humiliated by this poor nation?
And you don't see the danger of pootin potentially subjugating other sovereign nations in his megalomaniacal quest for a place in history?

I can respect that. <sarcasm> :mrgreen:



You're thinking outside Ukraine. I'm only thinking within Ukraine because that's where this war currently resides.

One nation Vs another a world war does not make. It's happened plenty of times before and nobody seems to care to intervine as long as it involves black or Muslim people.

We need to stop with this relentless war mongering.

Secondly, for the first time in history we have nuclear weapons. People seem to forget about this while war mongering.



Nades
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03 Mar 2022, 6:52 am

auntblabby wrote:
so what should we do when russia decapitates and rapes ukraine?


Ukraine doesn't have an anus, vagina or head. It's a piece of land that doesn't feel pain or mental anguish.

Personifying a piece of land edges everyone closer including you and your family to being cooked by nukes.



The_Walrus
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03 Mar 2022, 6:52 am

auntblabby wrote:
in an ideal world, what we're doin' to the rooskies, we'd be doin' to the chinese gov't as well.

We need to save it for the moment when we most need it, which is probably when they target Taiwan. Go too soon and they won’t have anything to lose.

Nades wrote:

Finally some sense. Comparisons to WW2 are getting tired. Hitler invaded multiple countries and was not someone who could be negotiated with and he was also a genocidal maniac. At the beginning of WW2 nuclear weapons were also not a thing.

Putin has invaded one country so far (yeah I know, he's invaded others but those are isolated events which the western forces are not innocent of too)

He has also made his demands clear allowing plenty of room to negotiate unlike Hitler. Lastly and most importantly a new world war will begin with ample nuclear weapons.

Very different as should be abundantly clear. I'm rapidly losing respect for ex Soviet block eastern European nations and their populations for thinking their axe to grind is everyone else's axe.

I'm not particularly keen on Cardiff being leveled by a nuke because other countries with bad blood against their traditional enemy pressured other countries into starting WW3.

Hitler also made clear demands, many of which were even viewed as reasonable and which were happily agreed to. Of course today we would say that they weren’t.

Putin’s demands might have been clear, but he made them knowing that they were unacceptable. Nobody is going to allow another country to dictate their foreign policy. We’re not going to kick Bulgaria and Romania and Poland out of NATO just because some third party isn’t happy about it.

It is also important to remember that nobody has declared war on Russia over the invasion. Indeed, Western leaders have ruled out the possibility. Nobody is “war mongering” except Russia.

Saying we should just turn a blind eye and roll over because Russia has nuclear weapons is obviously not a viable course of action. When do we stop rolling over? When Russia invades Poland, would sanctions be OK with you? What about Germany? France? London? Bristol? Newport? As long as it isn’t Cardiff, right?



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03 Mar 2022, 6:54 am

auntblabby wrote:
reminds me of the words of the reverend Martin Niemöller-
Image



There are 7 billion of us and plenty can speak. Let's not start a nuclear war that targets billions because a few thousand have died.



Nades
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03 Mar 2022, 7:24 am

The_Walrus wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
in an ideal world, what we're doin' to the rooskies, we'd be doin' to the chinese gov't as well.

We need to save it for the moment when we most need it, which is probably when they target Taiwan. Go too soon and they won’t have anything to lose.

Nades wrote:

Finally some sense. Comparisons to WW2 are getting tired. Hitler invaded multiple countries and was not someone who could be negotiated with and he was also a genocidal maniac. At the beginning of WW2 nuclear weapons were also not a thing.

Putin has invaded one country so far (yeah I know, he's invaded others but those are isolated events which the western forces are not innocent of too)

He has also made his demands clear allowing plenty of room to negotiate unlike Hitler. Lastly and most importantly a new world war will begin with ample nuclear weapons.

Very different as should be abundantly clear. I'm rapidly losing respect for ex Soviet block eastern European nations and their populations for thinking their axe to grind is everyone else's axe.

I'm not particularly keen on Cardiff being leveled by a nuke because other countries with bad blood against their traditional enemy pressured other countries into starting WW3.

Hitler also made clear demands, many of which were even viewed as reasonable and which were happily agreed to. Of course today we would say that they weren’t.

Putin’s demands might have been clear, but he made them knowing that they were unacceptable. Nobody is going to allow another country to dictate their foreign policy. We’re not going to kick Bulgaria and Romania and Poland out of NATO just because some third party isn’t happy about it.

It is also important to remember that nobody has declared war on Russia over the invasion. Indeed, Western leaders have ruled out the possibility. Nobody is “war mongering” except Russia.

Saying we should just turn a blind eye and roll over because Russia has nuclear weapons is obviously not a viable course of action. When do we stop rolling over? When Russia invades Poland, would sanctions be OK with you? What about Germany? France? London? Bristol? Newport? As long as it isn’t Cardiff, right?


Putin's a much more reasonable guy than Hitler. Hitler invading other nations was actually second or third on the list as to why he was evil.

Germany, France, London, Bristol? What you described is a world war. Of course I'll be fine with a world war when a world war is well underway. One certain way of a German, Polish and British invasion is to get overly involved in Ukraine.

People seem to be trying to avoid a world war by intentionally starting a world war. Truly weird logic.

At the moment though, this is Ukraine's war.



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03 Mar 2022, 7:34 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm rapidly losing respect for ex Soviet block eastern European nations and their populations for thinking their axe to grind is everyone else's axe.


If you think we can bury our heads in the sands and pretend we here in the US wouldn't be hit in a million ways as other governments fall to Russia you are wrong.

It's never just one country. Or two. Or ?


The west will get hit if they choose to escalate it. It's only been a week since the invasion and you don't want to wait any longer to see how it pans out before potentially starting off another world war?

Really?



magz
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03 Mar 2022, 7:48 am

So far, it's Putin choosing to escalate it.


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DW_a_mom
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03 Mar 2022, 7:52 am

Nades wrote:
Putin's a much more reasonable guy than Hitler.


More accurately, Putin is a much smarter and clandestine guy than Hitler was. That makes him more successful as a threat. Not all invasions come in the form of tanks.


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03 Mar 2022, 7:58 am

Even within as “smart of a guy” as Putin is, his falsehoods and propaganda are plainly obviously a bunch of crap to even one who cursorily analyzes his words and actions.

This is at the crux as to why dictators aren’t really into a free exchange of ideas.



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03 Mar 2022, 8:00 am

Nades wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm rapidly losing respect for ex Soviet block eastern European nations and their populations for thinking their axe to grind is everyone else's axe.


If you think we can bury our heads in the sands and pretend we here in the US wouldn't be hit in a million ways as other governments fall to Russia you are wrong.

It's never just one country. Or two. Or ?


The west will get hit if they choose to escalate it. It's only been a week since the invasion and you don't want to wait any longer to see how it pans out before potentially starting off another world war?

Really?


I didn't say war. I said we can't ignore. We're currently fighting Putin the way I think is probably smartest in the modern world: without guns and bombs. It's the most aggressive non-military assault I've seen in my lifetime, a level of non-military assault that wasn't available in the lower tech world that existed in prior decades. I am not a military hawk, and the last decade has shown us that a whole lot can be accomplished without tanks. Think differently.


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Nades
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03 Mar 2022, 8:03 am

magz wrote:
So far, it's Putin choosing to escalate it.


Escalation is based on the concept of an action followed by a retort. This retort is yet to be made.

With thousands of nuclear weapons and the stakes never being so high, knee jerk reactions after mere days is to be avoided.

I don't understand why I need to say this. It should be obvious that more than a few days thought is needed before two nuclear armed super powers clash.



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03 Mar 2022, 8:04 am

If the US offers to relay their intelligence information to Ukrainian forces, this would be close to offering them some of their armed forces.



Nades
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03 Mar 2022, 8:10 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

I didn't say war. I said we can't ignore. We're currently fighting Putin the way I think is probably smartest in the modern world: without guns and bombs. It's the most aggressive non-military assault I've seen in my lifetime, a level of non-military assault that wasn't available in the lower tech world that existed in prior decades. I am not a military hawk, and the last decade has shown us that a whole lot can be accomplished without tanks. Think differently.


I just thought you implied it. Sorry.

This is the only way to fight him without giving him the green light to set his eyes further than Ukraine.

The economic damage could go further with civilians damaging property of wealthy Russians. Shame only one super yacht has been damaged so far to the best of my knowledge.