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Why is the U.S so fascist?

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Pepe
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08 Apr 2023, 10:06 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It's funny you complain about word salad when your own arguments often resemble word salad, with lots of buzzwords intended to appeal to a visceral dislike of leftism rather than any rational substance.


I was also going to point out that out but lately I've been reported for "attacking vulnerable people" by pointing things out

Misrepresentation frequently happens.
But I have no knowledge of your specific situation.

What I have noticed is the disrespect for studies on a subject when it is against someone else's narrative.
And I don't mean healthy skepticism.



TwilightPrincess
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08 Apr 2023, 10:07 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
It's not my job to convince you about anything.


When did your job become relevant? I don't care about your job, I care about your unsubstantiated claims that you keep making and expecting others to just mindlessly agree with.

We're talking about your ideas. Your ideas don't hold up to scrutiny and when this is pointed out your defence (at least today) appears to be a 100% concession that your ideas can't be defended.

Whether or not it's your job, if you can't make a compelling case to anyone except fellow followers of the faith, consider the possibility that your claims aren't as valuable or convincing as you'd like them to be.

CRT is a cult because my cult says so.

Cool story bro.


Whatever.

You can’t expect people not to refute your claim when you make one without valid evidence.

As someone who grew up in a cult, I’m not seeing a lot of parallels with CRT. It’s just fear-mongering.


Well, I already explained about what isn't right about CRT. It's methodology originates in the Frankfurt school. It's a postmodernist and neo-marxist school of philosophy. Now I hope I don't need to bring evidence about why Marxism is evil. About postmodernism I understand that some people might be less familiar with it and it might be required to explain why I think it's garbage. I believe it's garbage because I don't agree with it's epistemology. I believe that our only way to draw valid conclusions about the world is through the scientific method. Postmodernism 's epistemology is language based and a priori. It's basically word salad. So that's what CRT is, a word salad garbage, marxist evil cult. You can believe in it, but you can't push it on other people's kids.

I don’t think you appreciate what “postmodernism” actually is. It’s not a single philosophy but a collection of diverse philosophical beliefs, like modernism was. I happen to really enjoy the work of various postmodernist artists and musicians.

Claiming that postmodernism is all bad just because you don’t like it is not logical.

Anyway, your argument is not based on sound reasoning. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it an evil cult. I’m going to need more evidence against CRT than that.


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cyberdad
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09 Apr 2023, 12:03 am

Pepe wrote:
Misrepresentation frequently happens.
But I have no knowledge of your specific situation.

What I have noticed is the disrespect for studies on a subject when it is against someone else's narrative.
And I don't mean healthy skepticism.


Ok valid point, I am on board to accommodate views/experiences that might conflict with my own personal values.
One of the wisest things I recall from my childhood was from a German lady who cleaned my parent's house. She was a child during WWII and survived the bombing of Dresden, I recall she had personal views that maybe were a byproduct of her upbringing (e.g. freemasons were agents of the devil and other strange ideas).

But she also used to talk to me a lot (and now that I think of it she seemed to intuitively know me better than my parents did). When I spoke of things to her (that she probably gathered was me being a 7 year old ranting and being emotional) she would always say the same thing. "In society accept there things you can't change and things you can change". The trick is to know the difference".
I think back and she was probably correct. My inclination was (and probably still is) to invalidate a person's views when it doesn't fit my own values.

It takes a lot of effort to walk in other people's shoes. It's harder than it looks.



Last edited by cyberdad on 09 Apr 2023, 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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09 Apr 2023, 12:03 am

Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

You make a glaring flaw by insisting that Marxism is inherently evil because evil dictatorships have been inspired by it. Great evils have been inspired by Christianity and Islam; capitalism has also caused great evils. We still don't dismiss these things as inherently evil as a result though.


I don't know much about Marxism.
Could you give examples of where Marxism has been successful?


I fail to see how your deflection relates to what I said. This is yet another example of you relying on moving goalposts because you can't address what was actually said. It's dishonest behaviour that diminishes whatever appearance of rationality and intellect you might otherwise be able to posses. Bad skunk, cut it out.

But, I suppose you could point to the increases in literacy and access to healthcare that were achieved by most Marxist governments as examples of success. Of course, ignoring those sorts of successes is required in order to believe your gotcha would get.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Dengashinobi
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09 Apr 2023, 2:15 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think you appreciate what “postmodernism” actually is. It’s not a single philosophy but a collection of diverse philosophical beliefs, like modernism was. I happen to really enjoy the work of various postmodernist artists and musicians.

Claiming that postmodernism is all bad just because you don’t like it is not logical.

Anyway, your argument is not based on sound reasoning. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it an evil cult. I’m going to need more evidence against CRT than that.


I think that you read whatever you like. Because at no point did I offer as an argument that I don't agree with postmodernism because "I don't like it". Instead I said that the epistemology of postmodernism is a priori and language based, which is a methodology anable to draw valid conclusions about the world. In short, with postmodern discourse everybodycan claim anything and be always equally right. Now, will I need to repeat my argument again?



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09 Apr 2023, 2:19 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
. . . I said that the epistemology of postmodernism is a priori and language based, which is a methodology unable to draw valid conclusions about the world. In short, with postmodern discourse everybody can claim anything and be always equally right. Now, will I need to repeat my argument again?
Would you please refrain from utilizing the vernacular of effete intellectualism and use simple plain English instead?

Thank you.


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cyberdad
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09 Apr 2023, 3:06 am

Fnord wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
. . . I said that the epistemology of postmodernism is a priori and language based, which is a methodology unable to draw valid conclusions about the world. In short, with postmodern discourse everybody can claim anything and be always equally right. Now, will I need to repeat my argument again?
Would you please refrain from utilizing the vernacular of effete intellectualism and use simple plain English instead?

Thank you.


One could argue using effete in your vocabluary is symptomatic of effete intellectualism :lol:



Pepe
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09 Apr 2023, 3:15 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Misrepresentation frequently happens.
But I have no knowledge of your specific situation.

What I have noticed is the disrespect for studies on a subject when it is against someone else's narrative.
And I don't mean healthy skepticism.


But she also used to talk to me a lot (and now that I think of it she seemed to intuitively know me better than my parents did). When I spoke of things to her (that she probably gathered was me being a 7 year old ranting and being emotional) she would always say the same thing. "In society accept there things you can't change and things you can change". The trick is to know the difference".


This is part of "The Serenity Pray".

cyberdad wrote:
I think back and she was probably correct. My inclination was (and probably still is) to invalidate a person's views when it doesn't fit my own values.

It takes a lot of effort to walk in other people's shoes. It's harder than it looks.


I think there might have been some confusion.
I was supporting you, based on recent events.



Pepe
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09 Apr 2023, 3:22 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

You make a glaring flaw by insisting that Marxism is inherently evil because evil dictatorships have been inspired by it. Great evils have been inspired by Christianity and Islam; capitalism has also caused great evils. We still don't dismiss these things as inherently evil as a result though.


I don't know much about Marxism.
Could you give examples of where Marxism has been successful?


I fail to see how your deflection relates to what I said. This is yet another example of you relying on moving goalposts because you can't address what was actually said. It's dishonest behaviour that diminishes whatever appearance of rationality and intellect you might otherwise be able to posses. Bad skunk, cut it out.

But, I suppose you could point to the increases in literacy and access to healthcare that were achieved by most Marxist governments as examples of success. Of course, ignoring those sorts of successes is required in order to believe your gotcha would get.


You seem to be projecting.
I was sincerely interested in hearing what countries were successful when embracing Marxism.
You haven't answered my question.
Is it because you can't name any?



Pepe
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09 Apr 2023, 3:25 am

Fnord wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
. . . I said that the epistemology of postmodernism is a priori and language based, which is a methodology unable to draw valid conclusions about the world. In short, with postmodern discourse everybody can claim anything and be always equally right. Now, will I need to repeat my argument again?
Would you please refrain from utilizing the vernacular of effete intellectualism and use simple plain English instead?

Thank you.


I don't have a problem, even though my knowledge of "Postmodernism" is NOT comprehensive.
I think your comment was gratuitous, sorry.



Pepe
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09 Apr 2023, 3:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
. . . I said that the epistemology of postmodernism is a priori and language based, which is a methodology unable to draw valid conclusions about the world. In short, with postmodern discourse everybody can claim anything and be always equally right. Now, will I need to repeat my argument again?
Would you please refrain from utilizing the vernacular of effete intellectualism and use simple plain English instead?

Thank you.


One could argue using effete in your vocabluary is symptomatic of effete intellectualism :lol:

I was JUST going to say the same thing.
The irony is exquisite.
Perhaps it was intentional?



funeralxempire
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09 Apr 2023, 3:40 am

Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

You make a glaring flaw by insisting that Marxism is inherently evil because evil dictatorships have been inspired by it. Great evils have been inspired by Christianity and Islam; capitalism has also caused great evils. We still don't dismiss these things as inherently evil as a result though.


I don't know much about Marxism.
Could you give examples of where Marxism has been successful?


I fail to see how your deflection relates to what I said. This is yet another example of you relying on moving goalposts because you can't address what was actually said. It's dishonest behaviour that diminishes whatever appearance of rationality and intellect you might otherwise be able to posses. Bad skunk, cut it out.

But, I suppose you could point to the increases in literacy and access to healthcare that were achieved by most Marxist governments as examples of success. Of course, ignoring those sorts of successes is required in order to believe your gotcha would get.


You seem to be projecting.
I was sincerely interested in hearing what countries were successful when embracing Marxism.
You haven't answered my question.
Is it because you can't name any?


Go look up how literacy rates in China, Cuba or several others improved compared to under previous regimes.
Go look up access to health care improved (even if it remained less than ideal) in the same compared to under previous regimes.

Spare me the pompous twat routine Pepe. :roll:


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


cyberdad
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09 Apr 2023, 3:53 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Go look up how literacy rates in China, Cuba or several others improved compared to under previous regimes.
Go look up access to health care improved (even if it remained less than ideal) in the same compared to under previous regimes.


Interestingly the south Indian state of Kerala is India's only state government that is communist and coincidentally the highest literacy rate in all of India. However correlation is not always causation.

The rate of literacy and education in Kerala happens to be shared with other south Indian "dravidian" states and the island of Sri Lanka across the Palk straits. The people of this region are historically proud of their culture and naturally proud of their language and literature.



Pepe
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09 Apr 2023, 4:11 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

You make a glaring flaw by insisting that Marxism is inherently evil because evil dictatorships have been inspired by it. Great evils have been inspired by Christianity and Islam; capitalism has also caused great evils. We still don't dismiss these things as inherently evil as a result though.


I don't know much about Marxism.
Could you give examples of where Marxism has been successful?


I fail to see how your deflection relates to what I said. This is yet another example of you relying on moving goalposts because you can't address what was actually said. It's dishonest behaviour that diminishes whatever appearance of rationality and intellect you might otherwise be able to posses. Bad skunk, cut it out.

But, I suppose you could point to the increases in literacy and access to healthcare that were achieved by most Marxist governments as examples of success. Of course, ignoring those sorts of successes is required in order to believe your gotcha would get.


You seem to be projecting.
I was sincerely interested in hearing what countries were successful when embracing Marxism.
You haven't answered my question.
Is it because you can't name any?


Go look up how literacy rates in China, Cuba or several others improved compared to under previous regimes.
Go look up access to health care improved (even if it remained less than ideal) in the same compared to under previous regimes.

Spare me the pompous twat routine Pepe. :roll:


Another attack, but you can get away with it.
"Interesting". 8)

But China has embraced capitalism in large part now.
To me, it seems to be in conflict with Marxism, not that I know a lot about Marxism.

And you think Cuba has been a success?
I think you have a low bar in what is successful.



Dengashinobi
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09 Apr 2023, 9:34 am

I've been asked why I think that postmodernism is a cult and I've stated that it's methodology is a priori contrary to empirical. I believe this is a clear enough statement. It can't get more explicit than this.

Also about Marxism, you can try to whitewash it's inherent flaws and incitement for division and violence but empirical evidence is overwhelmingly against you. You have the case of Venezuela which has a government with a Marxist ideology which has made people's lifes miserable. It's not a Marxist-Leninist government but a Marxist one. How many times has Marxism to destroy peoples lives until we finally accept that it's inherently evil?



cyberdad
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09 Apr 2023, 7:36 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
I've been asked why I think that postmodernism is a cult and I've stated that it's methodology is a priori contrary to empirical. I believe this is a clear enough statement. It can't get more explicit than this.

Also about Marxism, you can try to whitewash it's inherent flaws and incitement for division and violence but empirical evidence is overwhelmingly against you. You have the case of Venezuela which has a government with a Marxist ideology which has made people's lifes miserable. It's not a Marxist-Leninist government but a Marxist one. How many times has Marxism to destroy peoples lives until we finally accept that it's inherently evil?


What I was asking is prove CRT is being systematically taught to through K1-K12 and that teachers are being trained in this type of curriculum.

You are going on about connections between marxism and postmodernism which has nothing to do with the question.