Will religion die out?

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Haliphron
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08 Dec 2008, 10:13 pm

slowmutant wrote:

How do atheists demonstrate their love, compassion, and charity in this world? You are certainly not a bunch of saints & heroes.

But speaking of religious love,compassio, and charity in this world what, praytell, do you have to say about Tomas de Torquemada? Is he a good example of this???

slowmutant
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08 Dec 2008, 10:25 pm

z0rp wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

How do atheists demonstrate their love, compassion, and charity in this world? You are certainly not a bunch of saints & heroes.

Just as Christians, it's not a requirement for Atheists to 'demonstrate' their love, compassion or whatever to the world. And regarding 'heroes', it depends really what you'd consider a hero. Like there are plenty of Atheists that are scientists of course, that have saved lives with medicine, is that considered hero behavior? And of course plenty donate to charities and such, but really this doesn't have to do with what you believe. Just about every Christian I know does not demonstrate giving behavior on a daily basis or donate to charity etc. Also what makes saints good people? Because your church said they are? I don't take your church as a reliable source of information so I'm not going to bother using saint as a term.

And as I said many times, I don't give a flying dog crap if Buddhists or any other religious group saved the world from meteors or any other good deeds, all I care about is what's actually true. Your religion is almost obviously not the truth, which is why I don't believe it. Alright?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Egoism trumps altruism.

Haliphron
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08 Dec 2008, 10:33 pm

slowmutant wrote:

z0rp wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

How do atheists demonstrate their love, compassion, and charity in this world? You are certainly not a bunch of saints & heroes.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Egoism trumps altruism.

Thats because we as human beings are fundamentally selfish, self-interested, and competitive with one another. We cooperate when we have common interests that can be met more effectively with group effort.

techstepgenr8tion
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08 Dec 2008, 10:55 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:

Oh I am aware of that, I did not say that athiest's hands are bloodless, just less then the religious.

In quantity over time though, that one's debatable. Lets just say adamance or supremacist thinking on any particular point of view will bring the same kinds of results and often in equal quantities if they're allowed to go far enough.

slowmutant
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08 Dec 2008, 10:56 pm

Haliphron wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

How do atheists demonstrate their love, compassion, and charity in this world? You are certainly not a bunch of saints & heroes.

But speaking of religious love,compassio, and charity in this world what, praytell, do you have to say about Tomas de Torquemada? Is he a good example of this???

The Master of the Inquisition? No, obviously not.

Think of it this way: is every member of the Jackson family a good singer & dancer just because their last name is Jackson?

techstepgenr8tion
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08 Dec 2008, 11:02 pm

This whole debate that's culminating right now reminds me - I should probably get Dinesh D Souza's new book 'What's So Great About Christianity'; heard him interviewed today and it seems like he's written well not only in defense but even more interestingly on what went wrong in the ages of sold indulgences, the Great Schism, and the inquisitions - that much I haven't heard a lot about.

countzarroff
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09 Dec 2008, 12:25 am

Anyone who thinks religion is going to die out is ret*d. You obviously haven't met anyone who's a fundementalist. They are stubborn as a mule. Don't waste your time trying to convert people, it will hurt your brain, just accept me and other christians and those of us who are good people will accept you back.

Ah_Q
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09 Dec 2008, 12:52 am

slowmutant wrote:

Really? Then why was her name beatified after her death? Why is she now considered a saint? What an obscene and spurious comment to make. How disrespectful! She had more Christ-nature in her little finger than you will have in your entire body, ever. You're the Mutha in this case.

She worked with the poor and the lepers of Calcutta, India.

Tell me, what good things have you done? What good have you done in the world? Do you serve other people or just yourselves?

How do atheists demonstrate their love, compassion, and charity in this world? You are certainly not a bunch of saints & heroes.

Lies, lies, lies. Just because someone gets sainted does not mean their are beyond reproach. The Church may have beatified her but that means next to nothing to me. She was no saint of the people. I have a lot against her but it all can be summed up best in quote by her successor, Sister Nirmala,

Quote:

Poverty will always exist. We want the poor to see
poverty the right way--to accept it and believe
that the Lord will provide.

Anyone who opposes measures to improve the conditions of the world's most impoverished (especially raising the status of women) and instead encourages them to just accept their poverty, to see the "beauty" in it is no friend of the people. This is the single most important reason to oppose religion.

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Haliphron
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09 Dec 2008, 1:00 am

slowmutant wrote:

Haliphron wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

How do atheists demonstrate their love, compassion, and charity in this world? You are certainly not a bunch of saints & heroes.

But speaking of religious love,compassio, and charity in this world what, praytell, do you have to say about Tomas de Torquemada? Is he a good example of this???

The Master of the Inquisition? No, obviously not.

Think of it this way: is every member of the Jackson family a good singer & dancer just because their last name is Jackson?

True. I guess a better example of what I was trying to ellude at would be Ante Pavelic, the bloodythirsty dictator or WWII croatia. It must be very difficult for the Catholic Church, particularly the fanciscan order, to come to terms to what was done in their name.

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09 Dec 2008, 2:25 am

slowmutant wrote:

Think of it this way: is every member of the Jackson family a good singer & dancer just because their last name is Jackson?

Nope. Just Victoria.

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slowmutant
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09 Dec 2008, 6:45 am

Ah_Q wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Quote:

Poverty will always exist. We want the poor to see
poverty the right way--to accept it and believe
that the Lord will provide.

God favours the meek, and Jesus certainly favoured the poor.

z0rp
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09 Dec 2008, 10:15 am

slowmutant wrote:

z0rp wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

How do atheists demonstrate their love, compassion, and charity in this world? You are certainly not a bunch of saints & heroes.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Egoism trumps altruism.

Well overall with most people, yes. Everyone is naturally more selfish than giving, it doesn't mean we're purely selfish but we do want things. And most of the time this is more beneficial to us in a common sense but we can dispute that later or in another thread if you'd like. But honestly, I'm glad I don't need threats that I'm going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity to make me be selfless.

Nutterbug
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09 Dec 2008, 10:48 am

slowmutant wrote:

She worked with the poor and the lepers of Calcutta, India.

Tell me, what good things have you done? What good have you done in the world? Do you serve other people or just yourselves?

Isn't doing it all for a ticket to heaven and eternal salvation ultimately serving yourself first and foremost?

slowmutant
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09 Dec 2008, 11:23 am

Nutterbug wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

She worked with the poor and the lepers of Calcutta, India.

Tell me, what good things have you done? What good have you done in the world? Do you serve other people or just yourselves?

Isn't doing it all for a ticket to heaven and eternal salvation ultimately serving yourself first and foremost?

That depends. Does a person do good works merely in anticipation of a heavenly reward or are the good deeds rewarding in themselves? And how far would you go for a selfish reward, anyway? How far would you go before you throw up your hands and say, "There! I've done it! I'm officialy a good person, so gimme!"

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09 Dec 2008, 11:24 am

Chibi_Neko wrote:

People lets face it.... the religious have more blood on their hands then the atheists. Religion did not create morals, humans did.

You're kidding right? People who have died at the hands of atheists like Hitler, Stalin and Mao dwarf the number of people killed in every single religious war in recorded history. Not to commit the fallacy of accusing atheism as being 'evil', or the 'root of evil', but that more people have been targeted becuase of their religious faith than people targeted by people with religious faith. I would have thought that people would know better than to play the 'pin the blame' game by now.

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Nutterbug
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09 Dec 2008, 11:32 am

slowmutant wrote:

Nutterbug wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

She worked with the poor and the lepers of Calcutta, India.

Tell me, what good things have you done? What good have you done in the world? Do you serve other people or just yourselves?

Isn't doing it all for a ticket to heaven and eternal salvation ultimately serving yourself first and foremost?

That depends. Does a person do good works merely in anticipation of a heavenly reward or are the good deeds rewarding in themselves?

I'm sure you don't need any prospects of heavenly rewards to feel the intrinsic value of the good deed in itself.

slowmutant wrote:

And how far would you go for a selfish reward, anyway? How far would you go before you throw up your hands and say, "There! I've done it! I'm officialy a good person, so gimme!"

Well, if the reward is to last an eternity, anything you can do in a lifetime would be a pittance in comparison to it.

Last edited by Nutterbug on 09 Dec 2008, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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