Is work tyranny?

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Work is tyranny only to those who think the world owes them a living.

ruveyn

Let's take this to its logical conclusion. What if one does not want to pay for police and fire protection through tax dollars? Can you reject paying taxes for the military especially during a war one may object to? Is it tyranny to make the taxpayers to pay for the roads they drive on. By demanding a police force, military, fire department, , roads, etc are you not forcing others to pay for your protection? By the very nature of society do we not have to force people to do things for you like protection?

How would a society exist without some measure of force in it at all? Should society protect us or are we all responsible for our own protection as well? To me, this you're entitled to nothing and one is absolutely responsible for oneself when taken to its conclusion is absurd. We might as well not even have a society at all.

The reasoning that states that one should not be provided certain things by society because it is a form of slavery and all slavery is a form of tyranny makes no sense to me. If we're going by slavery in this context then how is all slavery tyranny? How is providing someone a living who can't work cruel and oppressive government or rule? How is one being forced into slavery by paying for police and military protection for society as a whole cruel and oppressive government or rule based upon the oxford's definition of tyranny?

How is all slavery a form of tyranny if society must have some levels of it to function?

Loaded statement.

Theres different modes of work, and different positions relative to the means of production.

Some work liberates, most work enslaves.

So you say. You just have not tried hard enough to find "liberating" work. The most liberating work there is, is starting your own business.

ruveyn

Its crossed my mind. I don't know how easy it is to get capital in the states but the problem is here theres zero help available, because the banks aren't lending and I have precious few skills to work with because of the asperger's. My wife, who is pretty resourceful at these sorts of things due to being a former business manager and foreigner from the developing world has similar frustrations. Her head is screwed on too, she has a business degree.

You need eggs to make an omelette. Its a catch 22.

Just a question. What magical process is going to assure each and every Prole satisfaction and woderfulness at work.

Is the Job Fairy going to give to each Prole his Dream Job?

And how do you account for people who work for the Evil Capitalists and still enjoy their work?

ruveyn

In China all concrete has to be hand mixed.

Here are some ideas, courtesy of Winston Wu

http://blog.happierabroad.com/2012/01/h ... th-vs.html

No. If any and all kind of work is tyranny then the tyrant is not a human agent. Some form of work is generally required to exist and there's no way to eliminate this fact completely. It's generally true that technology reduces the amount of physical effort required to exist but it will never completely eliminate the need for work.

It's not work itself that's tyrannical. It's any system with laws that allows a small minority to accrue disproportionate control over limited resources through ownership rights. Capitalism has it's advantages but it needs to be checked in some way by collective action or it will play out like a game of monopoly. If I came to own the entire water supply for a medium sized city and then threatened to cut off the entire city if it's citizens refused to worship me and send me sex slaves I would be classified as a tyrant. In that case I think the city would have the right to seize my "property" from me in the name of the greater good. To not do so would be to submit to tyranny.

Last edited by marshall on 07 Mar 2013, 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

exactly

So, I don't have a job. Mostly because I dislocate bones opening doors, and without my medication I can't stand up without passing out and potentially having a seizure. That's before having any mental or developmental problems.

I have a condition that affects every part of my body. My bones are deformed, my lungs damaged, my nervous system a wreck, my eyes almost legally blind, my skin tears and struggles to heal... just to name a few problems.

I wouldn't be nearly as bad now if I hadn't been worked so hard, needing to accept under the table jobs at below min wage that required manual labour that quickly ravaged my body.

I barely graduated high school because I was not given accommodations. IF I have the privilege of going to college it is extremely likely that I will be in an electric wheelchair by the time I graduate.

So you say people like me should either get a job or rely on family or friends. It's amazing how hard it is to have friends when you're stuck in bed most days. And my family? Please. My mother was a teen when she had me and my father is a drug addict. Neither of them consider me anything but an unfortunate and unwanted burden and have not contacted me since I left a few years ago.

Do I not have any value to society? Does my life not have a value? In a world where you are not given value based on your ability to be profitable, yes I most certainly do.

The way to address the problem of "dirty jobs" is to automate them as much as possible, and give those who do them the money they deserve for doing the job nobody else wanted to. We need to open the produced goods to those who need them. We can provide a healthy living situation for everyone, but not if we hold onto greed. Not if we hold onto a system where half of the worlds food doesn't even make it to human consumption. Link

People are not unemployed due to lack of work, there is work everywhere. Parks to be built, streets to be cleaned, but it isn't PROFITABLE work. We need to abandon our idea that profit is ideal, and instead work toward better living for all. We don't need to live in a world of poverty, pollution, and disease. We choose this because it is profitable. Because rich white people feel the need to keep everything the same. Money should not be power, and those who work the least shouldn't make the most. (Bankers, CEOs, etc) While I don't think that work is tyranny, I think wage labour is exploitation.

We don't have to live in a system of cruelty and greed. So why should we?

An interesting article, which contains some points relevant to the present discussion

http://www.alternet.org/story/154453/wh ... o_collapse

The USA is a nation of hustlers. Get a job that will numb your mind and help to make the rich richer.

its also a nation of habitual liars.

American workers have been poisoned against the trade union movement, effectively disarming them of being able to fight back.

The argument is work is tyranny. I going to restrict work as in how the workplace is set up, how much control they do have in our daily lives, and how much of a monopoly they have.

Tyranny means cruel and oppressive government or rule and it also means cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control:

Before we can establish work as tyranny these are the questions I need to ask.

1. How much control and influence does the mega-corporations have over our government?

2. How much control and influence does the government have over the corporations?

3. Do we truthfully have competition amongst the corporations or do we only have the illusion of competition? If we truthfully have competition why do we have chains like hotel chains owed by one parent corporation? Where is the competition?

4. What exactly are the philosophical and personality differences between the corporations that one may work for?

5. Are fresh ideas that can threaten a corporations status in the market easily squash-able by money and influence? Do corporations influence government to squash alternatives?

6. How much influence does a potential candidate have to his working conditions and his pay when chooses to work for a particular corporation? Is it considered acceptable by society to state one's terms and what the corporation will do for him as well? Is reciprocity given by the corporations to the employees? Does the candidate actually have alternate choices that are positive and moral?

7. How much of the world's resources do these corporations own? Is the amount of resources owned directly proportional to how much influence one has? As a person or a group of people gain more and more influence do they become more powerful politically as well? Do they become part of our government and eventually become our government? Even though our government is officially codified by our constitution and other laws can we have unofficial codification as well? Do the corporations have so much influence over the world that they are becoming our government and may already be our government?

That makes sense.

That's a lot of "ifs" there, Marshall.