Black Gangs Vented Hatred For Whites In Downtown Denver

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LKL
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14 Jan 2010, 1:31 pm

ASPER wrote:
Dude, that's weak, you are threatening with insulting me.
What would you gain by insulting me? Have you thought about that?


He wasn't threatening you; he was restraining himself.

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Colonialism... And why couldn't Africans fight this off? Not enough technology? Why not?
It wasn't because they were unable to wage war, there were internal African conflicts before tyrants came to do businesses with Africans that profited from their own people.


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Spears and shields do little against machine guns, even in the hands of the most talented warriors.
The example I gave to LKL did not have improvised statistics.


Dogs and grizzly bears are totally irrelevant to this topic. Show some human statistics to back up your claims, please - and as the claimant, the onus is upon you to back up your claim, not us to research and support it for you.



LKL
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14 Jan 2010, 1:39 pm

ASPER wrote:
The proportions show there are more black rapists than white rapists.(or are you going to say this is incorrect?)


Yes. Look at the numbers. In terms of overall numbers, there are vastly more white rapists than black rapists because there are vastly more white men than black men. Black men are proportionately more likely to be involved in criminal activity, including rape, because they are proportionately more likely to be in poverty - but even given that, they are less likely to be the rapist of a white woman than a white man is.

Out of curiosity, I'd like you to put yourself into the same situation as I theoretically did: you're walking down a dark street at night. Approaching you on one side of the street is a black man in a business suit, carrying a briefcase. On the other side of the street is a white man in dirty, sagging jeans and a torn hoodie. Which side of the street will you cross to?

Quote:
Therefore, encountering a black man and a white man means there are more chances that the black man is a rapist.


Not of white women, which was your initial claim.

Quote:
Now if you actually were raped, and happen to be white, it means you most likely had a white male offender.


Finally! It only took, what, two pages of citations to force you to admit that!?



MissConstrue
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14 Jan 2010, 1:41 pm

You know, I wonder how a black guy would feel after reading this whole thread.... :?

Too bad we don't have many black aspies, be interesting to hear their opinions on the subject.


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LKL
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14 Jan 2010, 1:42 pm

WorldsEdge wrote:
But Gould's methods were not those of a scientist in Mismeasure but of someone pushing an agenda while masquerading as one. In that sense the book is crap, pure and simple.


Do you have a link to the review and/or book that criticizes Gould? I'd be interested in checking it out.



LKL
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14 Jan 2010, 1:43 pm

[quote="ASPER"I've said already that I am not sure how much does race has to do with this.
I'm not saying race is the main cause.[/quote]

*cough*BS*cough*



TitusLucretiusCarus
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14 Jan 2010, 1:54 pm

^^thanks, LKL



ascan
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14 Jan 2010, 2:28 pm

LKL wrote:
ascan wrote:
LKL wrote:
Asper-
don't just look at the total numbers. Look at the proportions. And read the links, for goodness' sake, before you claim that they don't contradict you!

Well, I looked at your link with the 2002 rape stats for N Carolina. Considering the second box, all other things being equal, the percentage of offenders of each race should reflect that of the population. But it seems that despite blacks only forming around 22% of the population of N Carolina they actually commit 31% of the rapes on whites. In the black victims box, the black offenders reaches a staggering 88%. Only 6% of offenders for black victims are white, despite whites making up 74% of the population, which has previously been claimed on this thread,

Which sort of contradicts the position that whites don't rape blacks at all...

Did someone claim that? Well, 6% white to 88% black offenders with a black victim in the context that whites are the majority in the population seems to indicate that whites raping blacks isn't very common.

LKL wrote:
...and also contradicts the claim that I'm more in danger from a black man than a white man.

The figures actually indicate that if you select a random white male and a random black male from the population then the black male has a higher probability of being a rapist. Isn't that what ASPER is saying? If whites and blacks were equally likely to commit rape then the percentage of offenders of a given colour would be the same as the percentage of people of that colour in the general population. Moreover, if we extract the data for the number of black and the number of white offenders we get 980 white offenders and 1304 black offenders. Clearly even though blacks are in a minority, more of them in absolute terms are carrying out rapes than whites.

LKL wrote:
...And, think about it: It's been shown that juries are more likely to convict a theoretical black rapist of a white woman than a theoretical white rapist of a black woman, given the same set of circumstances. Those numbers are probably a little weak.

You supplied the figures, not me, remember. Even allowing for any bias the evidence seems very clear.



ascan
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14 Jan 2010, 2:43 pm

Just to reinforce the point:

LKL wrote:
... In terms of overall numbers, there are vastly more white rapists than black rapists because there are vastly more white men than black men.

No. The N Carolina figures show more blacks than whites in absolute terms as rapists even though there are more whites than blacks in the population.

LKL wrote:
...they are less likely to be the rapist of a white woman than a white man is.

Keeping in mind that 22% of the N Carolina population are black, the figures show that any individual black man in that population is more likely to be a rapist of white women than any individual white man.

LKL wrote:
...Not of white women, which was your[ASPER's] initial claim.

Yes, of white women. I hope that's clear.



ASPER
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14 Jan 2010, 7:37 pm

LKL wrote:
Yes. Look at the numbers. In terms of overall numbers, there are vastly more white rapists than black rapists because there are vastly more white men than black men. Black men are proportionately more likely to be involved in criminal activity, including rape, because they are proportionately more likely to be in poverty - but even given that, they are less likely to be the rapist of a white woman than a white man is.


Leave the poverty issue for another occasion. Stay on topic.

Less likely to be rapists of white women than white men is.
Proportionally speaking, that is wrong.
If you were able to increase the black male population to the same numbers of white males the rapes by blacks would be skyrocketing.

LKL wrote:
Out of curiosity, I'd like you to put yourself into the same situation as I theoretically did: you're walking down a dark street at night. Approaching you on one side of the street is a black man in a business suit, carrying a briefcase. On the other side of the street is a white man in dirty, sagging jeans and a torn hoodie. Which side of the street will you cross to?


Of course I'll walk on the black guy's side. Given the details about each individual who wouldn't?
That was a dumb ass question. What did you tried to prove there? That black man can be good?

LKL wrote:
ASPER wrote:
Therefore, encountering a black man and a white man means there are more chances that the black man is a rapist.


Not of white women, which was your initial claim.

Not of white women statistically but yes proportionally.
So your example is incorrect.
Now, if you tell me that you have been raped in 2007 or 2004 w/e, I can hypothesize, using statistics, that it was most likely a white male who raped you.

LKL wrote:
ASPER wrote:
Now if you actually were raped, and happen to be white, it means you most likely had a white male offender.


Finally! It only took, what, two pages of citations to force you to admit that!?

Noooooooooooo
I didn't admit anything, there are two different things that we are talking about.

Percentage of rapist-offenders per white and black male populations(rapist-nonrapist ratio) AND Percentage of rapist-offenders of black and white women populations(victim-race/offender-race ratio).



ASPER
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14 Jan 2010, 7:43 pm

ascan wrote:
LKL wrote:
...Not of white women, which was your[ASPER's] initial claim.

Yes, of white women. I hope that's clear.


Statistically for NC there are more black rapists of white women than white rapists.

Statistically nationally there are more white rapists of white women than black rapists.

Proportionally there are more black rapists per black population ratio than white rapists per population ratio, nationally and obviously more intensively in NC.

She doesn't see these two distinctions. Statistics and rapist-nonrapist ratio.



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14 Jan 2010, 8:04 pm

LKL wrote:
Dogs and grizzly bears are totally irrelevant to this topic. Show some human statistics to back up your claims, please - and as the claimant, the onus is upon you to back up your claim, not us to research and support it for you.


What I was trying to show you with that example is that the statistics are affected by various factors.

Of course, if we would see grizzly bears as often as we see dogs, the grizzly homicide rate would be higher as their nature show they are more vicious than dogs.



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14 Jan 2010, 11:15 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
If there were a society where the dominant and wealthy individuals were of a darker complexion while there was a vocal minority of poor and pale individuals, which do you think would be found to be the greater instance of violence and abuse?


I don't know because I've never seen such a society yet.
It would be more than one reason, as it is today. The main cause, maybe there is none, maybe there are main causes applying only to certain individuals.
If I'm telling you I don't know how much does race(genetics) have to do with this, I cannot give you a full answer because I myself don't know the complete answer to the current situation about white/black crime rates.
I've talked about the possible factors and I included genetics.



codarac
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15 Jan 2010, 5:24 pm

TitusLucretiusCarus wrote:

what's that Skip? Germany used up most of its gold reserves?



You can take the words of Reason magazine and court historians like Ian Kershaw as gospel if you like. I've encountered plenty of evidence that suggests the Nazis' economic policies were not as disastrous as you say.

Some words on Nazi monetary policy

Quote:
From THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX:
HOW A BANKRUPT GERMANY SOLVED ITS
INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEMS
Ellen Brown, August 9th, 2007
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/bankrupt-germany.php

"We were not foolish enough to try to make a currency [backed by] gold of which we had none, but for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced. . . .we laugh at the time our national financiers held the view that the value of a currency is regulated by the gold and securities lying in the vaults of a state bank."
- Adolf Hitler, quoted in "Hitler's Monetary System," www.rense.com, citing C. C. Veith, Citadels of Chaos (Meador, 1949)

… When Hitler came to power, the country was completely, hopelessly broke. The Treaty of Versailles had imposed crushing reparations payments on the German people, who were expected to reimburse the costs of the war for all participants — costs totaling three times the value of all the property in the country. Speculation in the German mark had caused it to plummet, precipitating one of the worst runaway inflations in modern times. At its peak, a wheelbarrow full of 100 billion-mark banknotes could not buy a loaf of bread. The national treasury was empty, and huge numbers of homes and farms had been lost to the banks and speculators. People were living in hovels and starving. … Germany had no choice but to succumb to debt slavery to international lenders.

Or so it seemed. Hitler and the National Socialists, who came to power in 1933, thwarted the international banking cartel by issuing their own money. In this they took their cue from Abraham Lincoln, who funded the American Civil War with government-issued paper money called "Greenbacks." Hitler began his national credit program by devising a plan of public works. Projects earmarked for funding included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new buildings, roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. The projected cost of the various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. One billion non-inflationary bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates, were then issued against this cost. Millions of people were put to work on these projects, and the workers were paid with the Treasury Certificates. This government-issued money wasn't backed by gold, but it was backed by something of real value. It was essentially a receipt for labor and materials delivered to the government. Hitler said, "for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced." The workers then spent the Certificates on other goods and services, creating more jobs for more people.

Within two years, the unemployment problem had been solved and the country was back on its feet. It had a solid, stable currency, no debt, and no inflation, at a time when millions of people in the United States and other Western countries were still out of work and living on welfare. Germany even managed to restore foreign trade, although it was denied foreign credit and was faced with an economic boycott abroad. It did this by using a barter system: equipment and commodities were exchanged directly with other countries, circumventing the international banks. This system of direct exchange occurred without debt and without trade deficits. Germany's economic experiment, like Lincoln's, was short-lived; but it left some lasting monuments to its success, including the famous Autobahn, the world's first extensive superhighway.

Hjalmar Schacht, who was then head of the German central bank, is quoted in a bit of wit that sums up the German version of the "Greenback" miracle. An American banker had commented, "Dr. Schacht, you should come to America. We've lots of money and that's real banking." Schacht replied, "You should come to Berlin. We don't have money. That's real banking."

Economist Henry C K Liu writes of Germany's remarkable transformation:
The Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, at a time when its economy was in total collapse, with ruinous war-reparation obligations and zero prospects for foreign investment or credit. Yet through an independent monetary policy of sovereign credit and a full-employment public-works program, the Third Reich was able to turn a bankrupt Germany, stripped of overseas colonies it could exploit, into the strongest economy in Europe within four years, even before armament spending began.

In Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People (1984), Sheldon Emry commented:
Germany issued debt-free and interest-free money from 1935 and on, accounting for its startling rise from the depression to a world power in 5 years. Germany financed its entire government and war operation from 1935 to 1945 without gold and without debt, and it took the whole Capitalist and Communist world to destroy the German power over Europe and bring Europe back under the heel of the Bankers. Such history of money does not even appear in the textbooks of public (government) schools today.


And some words on the results of Nazi economic policy:

Quote:
From The Unnecessary War by Patrick Buchanan

…Churchill wrote of Hitler, "Whatever else may be thought about these exploits, they are among the most remarkable in the whole history of the world."' Churchill was referring not only to Hitler's political achievements, but his economic achievements. Before the end of his fourth year in power, Hitler had ended the De¬pression, cut unemployment from six million to one million, grown Germany's GNP by 37 percent, and increased auto production from 45,000 vehicles a year to 250,000.' City and provincial deficits had disappeared. This success goaded Churchill, before Hitler had ever moved on Austria or Czechoslovakia, to confide to American Gen. Robert Wood, at his flat in London in November 1936, "Germany is getting too strong and we must smash her.


Quote:
From an article by David Lloyd George in the Daily Express, 1936

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaste ... George.htm

I have now seen the famous German leader and also something of the great change he has effected. Whatever one may think of his methods - and they are certainly not those of a parliamentary country, there can be no doubt that he has achieved a marvelous transformation in the spirit of the people, in their attitude towards each other, and in their social and economic outlook.

He rightly claimed at Nuremberg that in four years his movement had made a new Germany.

There is for the first time since the war a general sense of security. The people are more cheerful. There is a greater sense of general gaiety of spirit throughout the land. It is a happier Germany. I saw it everywhere, and Englishmen I met during my trip and who knew Germany well were very impressed with the change.

One man has accomplished this miracle. He is a born leader of men. A magnetic and dynamic personality with a single-minded purpose, as resolute will and a dauntless heart.

He is not merely in name but in fact the national Leader. He has made them safe against potential enemies by whom they were surrounded. He is also securing them against the constant dread of starvation which is one of the most poignant memories of the last years of the War and the first years of the Peace. Over 700,000 died of sheer hunger in those dark years. You can still see the effect in the physique of those who were born into that bleak world.

The fact that Hitler has rescued his country from the fear of repetition of that period of despair, penury and humiliation has given him an unchallenged authority in modern Germany.

As to his popularity, especially among the youth of Germany, there can be no manner of doubt. The old trust him; the young idolize him. It is not the admiration accorded to a popular leader. It is the worship of a national hero who has saved his country from utter despondence and degradation.

To those who have actually seen and sensed the way Hitler reigns over the heart and mind of Germany, this description may appear extravagant. All the same it is the bare truth. This great people will work better, sacrifice more, and, if necessary, fight with greater resolution because Hitler asks the to do so. Those who do not comprehend this central fact cannot judge the present possibilities of modern Germany.

I have never met a happier people than the Germans and Hitler is one of the greatest men.


And some words on Hitler’s war plans:

Quote:
From The Origins of the Second World War by AJP Taylor

In 1938-39, the last peacetime year, Germany spent on ar¬maments about 15% of her gross national product. The British proportion was almost exactly the same. German expenditure on armaments was actually cut down after Munich and remained at this lower level, so that British production of aeroplanes, for example, was way ahead of German by 1940. When war broke out in 1939, Germany had 1450 modern fighter planes and 800 bombers, Great Britain and France had 950 fighters and 1300 bombers. The Germans had 3500 tanks; Great Britain and France had 3850. In each case Allied intelligence estimated German strength at more than twice the true figure. As usual, Hitler was thought to have planned and prepared for a great war. In fact, he had not.



codarac
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15 Jan 2010, 5:45 pm

LKL wrote:
@ Asper:

Regardless of what that 12% contains, the fact remains that if I'm walking home alone at night, and there's a white guy walking towards me on one side of the street and a black guy walking towards me on the other side of the street, I'm statistically vastly safer if I cross over to the same side as the black guy.

P.S: Check out The Mismeasure of Man by Steven J. Gould for the origin of all of these arguments.


Even Jesse Jackson disagrees with you on this one:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson

"There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
Jesse Jackson as quoted in US News & World Report (10 March 1996)

As for Stephen Jay Gould, he was a self-confessed Marxist. Whenever someone mentions race realist scientists like Richard Lynn and JP Rushton in here, you always get some liberal whining about the Pioneer Fund and how they're all Nazis and all the rest of it. So why do liberals think people like Gould were motivated by a selfless devotion to the truth?

Here are my favourite Stephen Jay Gould quotes:

May I end up next to Judas Iscariot, Brutus and Cassius in the devil's mouth at the centre of hell if I ever fail to present my most honest assessment and best judgment of the evidence for empirical truth (The Mismeasure of Man)

[Talk about protesting too much!]

Say it five times before breakfast tomorrow; more important, understand it as the center of a network of implication: “Human equality is a contingent fact of history.” (From The Flamingo’s Smile)

Compare this second one with the following quote from Through the Looking Glass and ask yourself if Gould is just having a laugh at his gullible readers.

Alice laughed: “There’s no use trying,” she said; “one can’t believe impossible things.”

“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.” (From Through the Looking-Glass)



TitusLucretiusCarus
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15 Jan 2010, 6:13 pm

@ codarac -

erm, exactly how does any of that refute the point made by the Reason article?
Your characterising people as court historians does what to their credibility, exactly?
Are you saying an Op-Ed that offers little or no supporting evidence is better than an article based upon the figures and statisitcs of the Nazi government itself?
8O And you take seriously the opinion of the man who brought us 'peace in our time' mere moments before a war that would kill tens of millions around the world?

Quote:
"There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
Jesse Jackson as quoted in US News & World Report (10 March 1996)


have you even read that quote? Jackson is saying that the thing he feels most pain about is the racism drummed into him, the racist attitude toward other african-americans he unconsciously holds, that is that he feels safer on the street with a white man than he does if the other were black.

Quote:
Whenever someone mentions race realist scientists


that's spelt 'racist', as in 'racist scientists'

Quote:
As for Stephen Jay Gould, he was a self-confessed Marxist.


Your point being?



codarac
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15 Jan 2010, 7:11 pm

TitusLucretiusCarus wrote:
@ codarac -

erm, exactly how does any of that refute the point made by the Reason article?



Refute is a strong word. My sources contradict yours because (if you want me to spell it out) they suggest that Nazi Germany was economically successful, that because of the Nazi system Nazi Germany had no great need for gold, and that in 1939 Hitler was not preparing for a great war.

TitusLucretiusCarus wrote:

8O And you take seriously the opinion of the man who brought us 'peace in our time' mere moments before a war that would kill tens of millions around the world?


You're thinking of Neville Chamberlain. I quoted David Lloyd George.

TitusLucretiusCarus wrote:

Quote:
Whenever someone mentions race realist scientists


that's spelt 'racist', as in 'racist scientists'

Quote:
As for Stephen Jay Gould, he was a self-confessed Marxist.


Your point being?


My point followed that sentence, but you have not quoted it. The point is that it is fair to wonder if Gould was motivated more by political bias than by scientific truth, particularly as liberals and Marxists often make the same assumption about scientists like Lynn and Rushton, as you yourself illustrate by smearing them with that Trotskyite boo-word "racist".