Conservatives and Homosexuality

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ascan
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03 Apr 2010, 2:32 pm

fidelis wrote:

GB is a capitalist country. As long as it is capitalist, then people won't get paid for how hard they work. Hard work doesn't get anyone anywhere. Let me show you an example:

Those figures do not support your claim. I've been around a lot longer than you, and can assure you that making an effort to do whatever you do to the best of your ability will in the longterm put you in a better position than if you had not. It won't on its own give you a $500,000 salary, but you'll never command that kind of money with your current attitude. You've got the victim mindset that bedevils many on the left. That's unfortunate in someone as young as you who's obviously reasonably intelligent.

fidelis wrote:

Who do you think does more work, The Duke of Westminster or a miner? And before you go on a roll about IQ and other biological factors:

Extreme exceptions do not prove something is not generally true. No one is saying that the richest people work the hardest, just that working diligently will make the best of whatever cards you've been dealt. That seems fairly self-evident.

ascan
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03 Apr 2010, 2:54 pm

Sand wrote:

If the immigrants were sent back there would be no agricultural workers to pick the crops and no cheap labor for the construction businesses. The immigrants are an integral part of the economy.

What about the five people you said were chasing each job vacancy? Surely $6 an hour is better than $0 an hour.

Sand
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03 Apr 2010, 7:19 pm

ascan wrote:

Sand wrote:

If the immigrants were sent back there would be no agricultural workers to pick the crops and no cheap labor for the construction businesses. The immigrants are an integral part of the economy.

What about the five people you said were chasing each job vacancy? Surely $6 an hour is better than $0 an hour.

So You advise out of work software engineers and other highly trained and qualified people over fifty to start over again by picking strawberries.By your logic, of course, these highly trained over-aged people will then be back on the road to personal success and if they pick enough strawberries they will no doubt be on the path to become successful and well paid executives of electronic firms.

Avarice
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03 Apr 2010, 8:28 pm

While I have nothing real to contribute to the discussion, I did find it worth noting that the "Conservapedia" page on Homosexuality was the largest Wiki page I have ever seen. These people must have a strong dislike for Homosexuals.

Sand
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03 Apr 2010, 10:05 pm

Avarice wrote:

I have known and worked with quite a few homosexuals and found them no different, in general, than heterosexuals. I have worked in the design field which attracts bright creative and dynamic personalities and many of these seem to be homosexuals.They have traits for, I suspect, that area of the human personality spectrum also to be represented by Aspies and Jews. These people (and I count myself as one of them as a heterosexual and possible Aspie and of Jewish lineage) are original because they feel the pressures of social rejection and learn to think for themselves beyond conformative unimaginative concepts.

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03 Apr 2010, 10:34 pm

ascan wrote:

fidelis wrote:

Who do you think does more work, The Duke of Westminster or a miner? And before you go on a roll about IQ and other biological factors:

If you looked at the original figures, then you might notice it's a rule rather than an "extreme exception."

Lets say you get a hell of a hand, strait flush. The decks been rigged, and they have four aces. Now you get four aces, so you think you got it made, but it's a rigged deck, and they have a royal flush. Even when you do get that royal flush, they got a S&W waiting. It's rigged and there is nothing a person can do about it.

Best evidence I can think of off the top of my head is the racial gap. Why is it that blacks have an lower average IQ? They are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world. According to you, it can't be because the system is stupid, so they must be less than others, right? It's that or the system won't allow them to succeed even if they get a good hand, which you obviously don't believe. Which is it?

I don't live in the UK, and this may not apply there, but the principles are the same, and if dug the net long enough I know I would find a similar example, so the above question generalizes, so don't try dodging it.

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Dox47
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04 Apr 2010, 1:59 am

I'm not even going to touch this debate, but I just wanted to add that the thread title is somewhat misleading; it should read "Social Conservatives and Homosexuality". Fiscal conservatives could care less, and though the two schools of though are sometimes found in the same individuals, that is far from a rule.

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ruveyn
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04 Apr 2010, 8:06 am

Dox47 wrote:

Exactly! There is not a penny of profit to be earned by being nosy about who sleeps with whom and what gender. Consensual sexual relationships should be private matters. The only time homoerotic relationships should be queried is at the blood donation center because of the possibility of AIDS or other STDs consequential to anal sex. The New York Blood Center and the American Red Cross question lists have six queries as to whether one has had a homosexual encounter (even once). If it is the case that one has had such an encounter he is put on the deferral list (a polite way of saying that his blood will not be taken). These agencies also query if the prospective donor has had relationship with a prostitute of either gender.

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irishaspie
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04 Apr 2010, 8:43 am

ruveyn wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

its still annoying that homosexuals cant donate blood...this isnt the 60s, heterosexuals are the majority when it comes to getting stds...and they should just do the same thing they do with heteros ,which is test their blood for diseases...dont know why we are automatically disquallified(anymore, can understand why it was that way in the past)

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ruveyn
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04 Apr 2010, 9:09 am

irishaspie wrote:

That is why they ask the hets if they ever had intercourse with a prostitute (of either gender). People who answer affirmatively are deferred. Any behavior which is likely or even possibly likely to lead to a communicable STD is grounds for deferral. They even ask a potential donor if they ever spent more than 72 hours in a lockup or prison. I don't think the blood services are really out to "get" homosexuals. They got burned back in the 80's when they did not screen carefully enough and there were cases of AIDS transmitted by blood transfusion. So the Red Cross and other blood services tightened up.

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irishaspie
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04 Apr 2010, 9:16 am

ruveyn wrote:

irishaspie wrote:

yes i realise why it happens but that isnt the case anymore, i think if we want to donate blood (and every country needs as much blood donations as possible) we should be allowed to if we are clean.

its kinda like "hey i want to donate blood so someone might have achance to live"
"sorry you're gay, the person is just going to have to die, tough"

=/ im bitter before my time

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ascan
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05 Apr 2010, 3:27 am

fidelis wrote:

Best evidence I can think of off the top of my head is the racial gap. Why is it that blacks have an lower average IQ? They are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world...

On average that's not necessarily true. First off, note that "blacks" in the US context originate in a specific part of Africa. Populations in different part of the world vary genetically; skin colouration, tooth type and height being obvious physical manifestations. If you read about what's been discovered recently about human population movements in the last 80,000 years, about genetic phenomena such as drift, and then consider the research that's tested "black" average IQ in the US, then you cannot state with certainty that they are just as intelligent as everyone else on average. That's not some racist white propaganda, either, because it doesn't preclude others from different parts of Africa having higher average IQs than the US population as a whole.

ascan
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05 Apr 2010, 3:49 am

Sand wrote:

You are showing your liberal "entitlement" colours, Sand. There's no shame in taking low-paid work to see one through a crisis. And if one is well-paid one should be considering that in the future one may not be so well paid, and act accordingly. I talked to someone recently who with their partner was earning, I'd estimate, £150,000 plus and they had no kids. He was worried about losing his job, but had just forked out £10k on a non-essential luxury item, and was off on an expensive overseas vacation the next week. If one of them lost their job, that would be it; they couldn't afford the interest payment on their rather nice house. Lots are in that situation, and whilst I do sympathise to an extent, as someone who's never gone on an expensive holiday, and who lives rather frugally, I don't take that sympathy too far.

Sand
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05 Apr 2010, 5:46 am

ascan wrote:

Sand wrote:

I didn't expect you have any sympathy for your fellow humans.nor, from your posts, any sense of the reality of how other people in trouble manage to get by. You are a nice match for ruyven over there in New Jersey (Soprano country) who would massacre millions if they don't fit his social concepts.

ruveyn
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05 Apr 2010, 9:25 am

irishaspie wrote:

Unfortunately there is no ready blood test to see if one is "clean" of STD's. If one becomes infected with HIV or Hepititis or other viral STD, it won't show up in the blood for several weeks. So all that can be done is to query if the potential donor has engaged in behaviors that might produce infected blood.

If there were a good generalized blood test of immediate validity, the blood services would be using them for the very reason you stated; they need blood donations.

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fidelis
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05 Apr 2010, 10:45 pm

ascan wrote:

fidelis wrote:

Best evidence I can think of off the top of my head is the racial gap. Why is it that blacks have an lower average IQ? They are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world...

Due to racial mixing, a lot of these kids don't even have thirty percent African in them (I hope history channel counts as a valid source). It is mainly social, and I blame it on, like most thing, traditionalists.

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