Ultraconservatives pretend homophobia/racism doesn't exist

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Which minority groups do ultraconservatives hate the most?

Gays & Lesbians	21%	[ 10 ]
African Americans	2%	[ 1 ]
The Poor	10%	[ 5 ]
Hispanic Immigrants	0%	[ 0 ]
Interracial Same-Sex Couples	2%	[ 1 ]
Atheists	13%	[ 6 ]
Non-Christian Religionists	2%	[ 1 ]
Other Minority Group	6%	[ 3 ]
All of the Above	44%	[ 21 ]

Total votes : 48

TeaEarlGreyHot
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01 Nov 2010, 5:16 pm

Interesting. I'm wondering how Conservative started to mean 'social and fiscal'.

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codarac
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04 Nov 2010, 2:17 pm

I don’t doubt that many self-described conservatives are not motivated by racial concerns – including even some of Obama’s most vociferous critics, even immigration restrictionists, even Tea Partiers and even Birthers. So I can understand why some of these people find it tiresome having the “racist” label thrown their way, just as I find it tiresome to witness.

But for me it is doubly tiresome, because my attitude is: if people’s opinions on Obama or immigration or anything else are motivated by racial concerns, then so what?

What is wrong with Whites or anyone else preferring to be governed by someone of their own race? What is wrong with Whites or anyone else wanting to remain a majority and maintain political power in a country founded by their own ancestors and co-racials? What is wrong with Whites or anyone else preferring to live among their own kind?

I have never heard an answer to these questions that goes beyond “it’s wrong because it’s racist and it’s racist because it’s wrong” or some version of Lewontin’s fallacy.

By the way, for those joining the thread on this page, here is a brief summary of Master Pedant’s opening post:

Master_Pedant wrote:

... racial hatred ... homophobia ... anti-gay ... movement ultraconservatives ... awful prejudices ... racism ... bigoted fundamentalist Christians ... homophobia.
... Neo-Nazis ... Neo-Nazis ... antisemitism ... ignorance ... bigotry ... Neo-Nazi ... antisemitism ... ultraconservatives ... racism ... homophobia ... Neo-Nazis ... anti-semitism ... ultraconservatives ... racism.

codarac
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04 Nov 2010, 2:27 pm

Here's one conservative who doesn't take accusations of racism lightly: George W Bush...

Quote:

Bush: Kanye West calling me a racist ‘the worst moment’ of my presidency

By John Byrne
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2010 -- 11:13 am

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/bush ... residency/

MATT LAUER: About a week after the storm hit NBC aired a telethon asking for help for the victims of Katrina. We had celebrities coming in to ask for money. And I remember it vividly because I hosted it. And at one part of the evening I introduced Kanye West. Were you watching?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Nope.

MATT LAUER: You remember what he said?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yes, I do. He called me a racist.

MATT LAUER: Well, what he said, “George Bush doesn’t care about black people.”

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: That’s — “he’s a racist.” And I didn’t appreciate it then. I don’t appreciate it now. It’s one thing to say, “I don’t appreciate the way he’s handled his business.” It’s another thing to say, “This man’s a racist.” I resent it, it’s not true, and it was one of the most disgusting moments in my Presidency.

MATT LAUER: This from the book. “Five years later I can barely write those words without feeling disgust.” You go on. “I faced a lot of criticism as President. I didn’t like hearing people claim that I lied about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction or cut taxes to benefit the rich. But the suggestion that I was racist because of the response to Katrina represented an all time low.”

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah. I still feel that way as you read those words. I felt ‘em when I heard ‘em, felt ‘em when I wrote ‘em and I felt ‘em when I’m listening to ‘em.

MATT LAUER: You say you told Laura at the time it was the worst moment of your Presidency?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yes. My record was strong I felt when it came to race relations and giving people a chance. And– it was a disgusting moment.

Yup. Some rapper calling him a racist was worse than 9/11.
It's good to see he's got his priorities in order.

LKL
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04 Nov 2010, 3:12 pm

codarac wrote:

What is wrong with Whites or anyone else preferring to be governed by someone of their own race? What is wrong with Whites or anyone else wanting to remain a majority and maintain political power in a country founded by their own ancestors and co-racials? What is wrong with Whites or anyone else preferring to live among their own kind?

It's a problem b/c their desire to live 'among their own kind' affects the lives of other people. It's like the saying, 'your right to wave your arms around ends at my face.' White people who only wanted to 'live among their own kind' established draconian apartheid laws in the south during the Jim Crow era, up to and including that a black man found in the wrong area w/o a good excuse (ie, that he was doing a job for a white person) could be arrested and thrown in jail; likewise, 'white-only' hospitals could refuse to treat a dying black person on their doorstep.

In addition, apartheid is not the only aspect of racism; there is also the attitudinal bias that causes black people to be considered more 'suspect' when in the presence of a crime and less capable at a job, regardless of their actual behavior or abilities; for instance, studies have shown that the same manuscript will be judged better when accompanied by the photo of a white person than when accompanied by the photo of a non-white person. This bias sometimes prevents us, as a society, from properly investigating white people who are criminals, and sometimes prevents us from having access to the most qualified people to do the jobs that make civilization work.
Racism is, in other words, an extreme form of nepotism.

ruveyn
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04 Nov 2010, 3:43 pm

codarac wrote:

All of us mutts live together in the same public space. That is what is wrong with your race based notions of public governance. We do not have separate geographic areas for Mutt A types, Mutt B types, etc.. Our country is not subdivided that way. So the kind of apartness you propose is inappropriate for the way we live together.

P.S. the notion of "pure" races is ultra bogus. The human race is a band of cousins and our kind, homo sapien sapien originated in Africa perhaps 250,000 years ago (there were other hominid species before ours, but they are now extinct). and spread out into the wider world about 160,000 years ago. All of us "white", "black", "brown" are all descended from the same lot and the various colors and races did what humans always do when they find themselves together in the same place, they intermarry or interbreed. We are a randy lot, we humans are.

ruveyn

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Last edited by ruveyn on 04 Nov 2010, 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Inuyasha
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04 Nov 2010, 4:41 pm

I find this entire poll to be insulting. You accuse conservatives of stereotyping and hating people, yet you are the one stereotyping.

codarac
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04 Nov 2010, 4:57 pm

LKL wrote:

codarac wrote:

It's a problem b/c their desire to live 'among their own kind' affects the lives of other people.

Good grief, is that the best you can come up with?
Do you not think that the desire of non-Whites to live among Whites (as shown by the migration of millions of non-Whites to America, Britain, France, Germany, Sweden year after year) affects the lives of Whites? Or do the lives of Whites not count?
Aren't we constantly being told about how all these non-Whites are suffering from having to live in racist White societies? (And yet non-Whites keep on coming!)
In other words, does the current arrangement not already "affect the lives of other people"?
Imagine if Whites and non-Whites really did form separate societies. Then non-Whites would never have to worry about living with the daily scourge of White racism again!

codarac
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04 Nov 2010, 5:05 pm

ruveyn wrote:

codarac wrote:

As anticipated, what we have here is another version of Lewontin's fallacy.
I wonder if Lewontin's motivations were similar to yours? Who knows?

ruveyn
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04 Nov 2010, 7:10 pm

codarac wrote:

As anticipated, what we have here is another version of Lewontin's fallacy.
I wonder if Lewontin's motivations were similar to yours? Who knows?

What is Lewontin's Fallacy?

I am simply stating a few facts about the human race which is the ONLY race we humans have.

The Bogus Races have no real relation to the sort of abilities the real live humans have. And non of the Bogus Races are pure. They never were.

ruveyn

Inuyasha
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04 Nov 2010, 8:07 pm

Like many other conservatives, I myself think the following.

That judging a person based on eye color, hair color, or skin pigmentation is quite simply idiotic.

I also think political correctness is idiotic to the point of suicidal. Seriously, some profiling is okay. It isn't meant to be an insult towards people and we shouldn't be discriminatory, however there needs to be some common sense.

Off the wall sci-fi example: If you're trying to catch a bad guy and the description is an 7 foot tall Lizardman with green scales. You don't go stopping every 3 to 4 foot tall Ewok for questioning as a suspect. By the same token if the perp is an 3-4 foot tall Ewok, you don't go stopping every 7 foot tall Lizardman and haul them in as a suspect either.

I'm fine with Homosexuals having civil unions, just don't call it marriage! I think that is an issue for God to sort out.

adifferentname
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04 Nov 2010, 9:00 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

I'm fine with Christians having an imaginary friend, just don't go calling it 'God', or expecting anyone else to believe in it.

From now on you can only call your imaginary friend 'Nancy', because it offends my personal ethics that someone would choose to believe something so patently ridiculous.

Raptor
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04 Nov 2010, 9:07 pm

adifferentname wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

I can't see why any Christian, including myself, would give a sh!t about offending you or your ethics.

ikorack
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04 Nov 2010, 9:13 pm

adifferentname wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Thats not funny or clever, it also makes some assumptions about Inuyasha you can't possibly be certain about.

@Inuyasha This whole marriage/civil union thing is pretty silly not every church is against gay marriage and to deny a church its right to conduct a marriage as it wishes is kind of silly. Also the only difference is a name and would only open the doors for discrimination between the two unless it was states explicitly as unacceptable. Also the government is a secular entity the can't(they could it would just be extremely improper) make a separate category of marriage just to satisfy a church.

EDIT: @name What personal ethic does it offend? Do your personal ethics require you to force your feelings on others?
EDIT2: @inu if its a problem for god to sort out why would you bother being offended or for that matter involve yourself at all?

adifferentname
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04 Nov 2010, 9:18 pm

ikorack wrote:

Thats not funny or clever, it also makes some assumptions about Inuyasha you can't possibly be certain about.

Interesting. I point out a ridiculous double-standard and suddenly there's a problem.

If you believe my intent was humour then you clearly missed the point of what I wrote.

ikorack
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04 Nov 2010, 9:23 pm

adifferentname wrote:

ikorack wrote:

Thats not funny or clever, it also makes some assumptions about Inuyasha you can't possibly be certain about.

Interesting. I point out a ridiculous double-standard and suddenly there's a problem.

If you believe my intent was humour then you clearly missed the point of what I wrote.

If your going to use satire or sarcasm to point something out you'll have to be more pompous if you want to avoid confusion.

LKL
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04 Nov 2010, 9:42 pm

ok, Codarac's defense of racism and apartheid is that it isn't really all that bad. Anyone else?

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