Evolution vs Creationism, Why are we having this silly debat

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Here in Indiana our General Assembly is considering a bill allowing teaching creationism in public schools. However, the bill proposed is ridiculous. Schools would be allowed to teach creationism but would have to be taught according to the views of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, and Scientology. My hope is even if this bill is passed, the Governor will have the good sense to veto it.

codarac, I pity your willful ignorance and your ridiculous beliefs about physical anthropology (and you basically strayed from the topic.) I would feel sorry for you for being ignorant but, as in the case of creationists, you wish to remain ignorant without giving any evidence (and always running away from questions) for your absured propositions. Oh, and in the off chance that you do respond to my request as a decent human being instead of cowering away like you have done before, explain my old haplogroup question in your terms of racial superiority.

Back on topic, creationism is a conspiracy theory that is simply not a logical debate. We should be debating issues that actually are difficult, not nonesense that wastes human effort. Creationism does not deserve its status as a "debate" in politics as it is not a debate in science (and no, this does not creationist pseudoscientific rubbish) and is completely in contradiction with reality, is simply wrong and deserves to be treated as a myth, not as a anything other than an old, superstitious falsehood.

I would not go so far as to call China 'level-headed', I would say that their culture is fundamentally confused about what to stand for. As to the support for the intellectual; the Chinese learning culture is very different. Chinese students are taught to repeat that which the teacher proscribes; the way we relate to post-grad supervisors is much different. In general, their respect for the authority of the position far outweighs the respect they have for the idea. I once had a Chinese professor tell me that no new ideas were possible until after one gains a PhD. As an academic, I simply would not survive within the Chinese academic system and culture. Our university culture is far more dynamic and far more open to new ideas. The Chinese system certainly teaches better but does not necessarily create a better thinker.



The opium war was caused primarily by the Chinese conception of sovereignty. They had no place within their conception for a power that was their diplomatic equal; much less one that was significantly more powerful. As such when they began to interact with other states from the westphalian system, conflict essentially became inevitable.

Last edited by 91 on 09 Feb 2012, 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

In absolute terms, very arguably China is not level headed. However, in relative terms, China is indeed among the most level headed civilizations on Earth, at least from my studies.

Interesting how the creationists on this thread, as a group, repeatedly attempt to change the discussion: Note ProfessorP's movement into Christian apologetics or codarac's movement into pseudoscientific racism. To be fair, I was the cause of a small amount of this straying from the topic, but I will not do so any more and if I do feel free to point me back to the topic at hand; likewise, I will call out avoidance of the topic from all persons in a reasonable manner and to a pragmatic extent.

I am not a YEC.

"China is indeed among the most level headed civilizations on Earth, at least from my studies."

By what measure? They have tried, civic nationalism, communism, confucianism and ethnic nationalism; and none of it has really fit the average Chinese citizen.

Last edited by 91 on 09 Feb 2012, 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Which Chinese State or Dynasty.? There have been several and the dynasties were ended in 1912 by Sun Yat Sen and his friends. And the Roman Empire may be dead and gone, but Roman tropes, forms and customs are still very much in the world. Take a look at public buildings in the West. Many are recreations of Roman architecture. Also our laws still have the imprint of Lex Romana. And Roman Imperial idiocy still lives on in the Catholic Church.

Rome is dead (in a way) but far from gone.

ruveyn

China does have a strange capability to make invading cultures and ideals 'Chinese'. The Han, Mongols and then the Communists have all been absorbed into the idea of 'China'. Interestingly a hardcore interpretation of westphalian sovereignty has become 'Chinese', in that if you question it, you act against what they see as their cultural values.

A good point. If the Chinese could get Mongols to sit down and enjoy Mu Shee Pork, they can assimilate anything. If the Chinese dominion and the Western dominion ever meld (it is possible) we would end up with the West sinified rather than the Chinese westernized.

As it stands, China has sopped up Western science and is doing a damned good job with it.

ruveyn

For myself, I think it is more liklely to be a blending in the vein of Taiwan or Hong Kong. Even human rights can be assimilated into Chinese culture without it's distinct flavor being lost.

Back on topic: YEC is a conspiracy theory for which no evidence exists. YECs, I challenge you to state and then to defend your beliefs or to admit that Darwinain Evolution is both: 1) Not a debate in science and 2) the best model for development currently available.

Once again, evolution is not a debate in science and, in answer to the OP's question as to why we are having this indeed silly debate, it is because many people, some with great power, choose to believe in foolishness without any rational reason to do so.

And by the way, OEC is not a valid explanation for geology, paleontology, astronomy, &c. and is rejected by the scientific consensus. Likewise, theistic evolution is irrationally complex as a deity or any other type of divine intervention is unnecessary for evolution to take place while also lacking any evidence for said divinity.

People can believe what they want including Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. What's with this terror that they're going to start teaching creationism in public schools? They sure as hell taught evolution in my school and probably my parents, too, so I don't think it's going to change now.
Find something actually significant to wring your hands over.

If we can swop the fundie christians for some ass kicking buddhist monks but keep the nice freedom & democracy bits, it's a deal.

Are you a creationist? If so, what type are you? If you are a creationist, debate me on the issue using reasoning, logic and other righteous justifications, surrender and admit your wrongness or be silent on the issue.

People indeed may believe what they wish to, but do not force these opinions on anyone else unless you can justify for your actions; if an action is ethical, you are to do it.

Unfortunately, peoples' opinions effect their actions and when your actions effect me and you have no logical reason to do so, you do an unethical act and that is simply unacceptable.

http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/cr ... sorder.htm
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... ution.html
http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/evolution.htm

I found these of interest.

I have noticed no creationists have satisfied my perfectly reasonable demands. Stop going off topic; instead, attempt to defend yourselves or admit defeat.

A perfectly logical and rational view point.

Live long and prosper, Spock